When is a skill "mastered"?

[LFMarm]

GUE Rec1 (or whatever it's about to be called) teaches everything neutral from the get go.

Has anybody had experience of kids starting from scratch taking GUE Rec 1? I would be happy to go this way if it doesn’t create an allergic reaction in my moody kids

 

[LFMarm]

It looks it’s now called Open Water Diver — Rec diver Level 1 (Open Water Diver | GUE)

 

[happy-diver]

But please, stop putting me out with that axe.

old man​

noun
1. an informal term for father, husband (sense 1)
2. (sometimes capitals) informal
a man in command, such as an employer, foreman, or captain of a ship
3. sometimes facetious
an affectionate term used in addressing a man

 

[The Chairman]

old man​

noun
1. an informal term for father, husband (sense 1)
2. (sometimes capitals) informal
a man in command, such as an employer, foreman, or captain of a ship
3. sometimes facetious
an affectionate term used in addressing a man

The term was fine. I was just funning'.

We often talk about new divers being task loaded/task overloaded by the environment,

The biggest task loading is them bouncing from the bottom to the surface ad nauseum. You can see the fright in their eyes as they try to figure out this mythical voodoo neutrality that their instructor has told them will take them a 100 dives to master.

It won't if you teach them HOW at the very beginning. Most instructors work from the bottom up. I worked from the top down. Trim first, then they learned how to go deeper and deeper, but never ever lie or kneel on the bottom. If you introduce trim/buoyancy at the beginning, then all skills are learned while neutral. Even better, their trim/buoyancy gets better and better as the class progresses. Since they are totally comfortable, having control of their depth, they aren't near as distracted in trying to maintain their depth. Ultimately, task loading is dramatically reduced, and the students have far, far more fun. More fun = less stress. Less stress = better and quicker learning. Can it be done with 8 students? I don't know. I don't like those classes and restrict mine to 4. I've done 6 for a family., and that was fine. I'm old and have no desire to push that number. But yes, an old fart can teach 6, so you young whipper snappers could do more.

 

[happy-diver]

Yeah me too man I just don't want to be upsetting your sometimes hysterical fan base
Hows about the Big Orange Don hey Pete, fa hoa ha ha, a few interesting tears ahead

Merry Christmas, best for the year

 

[Angelo Farina]

Similar, I'm told, especially in the lack of focus on neutral buoyancy during training and ignoring any issues associated with walking/crawling on or grabbing the bottom.
Perhaps @Edward3c or @Angelo Farina can tell us about the absense of neutral-buoyant training NOT in the US.

Well, I was working in a class last time in 1989, so my info can be a "a bit outdated".
When I was trained (years 1975-82) the main didactical tool was the ARO, a closed-circuit pure-oxygen rebreather. We used it mostly in the pool and the focus was ALL about neutral buoyancy with the ARO. Of course, in the standard trim for working with a chest-mounted rebreather, which is perfectly VERTICAL, not horizontal.
Other times, other devices, other purposes...
However, when the ARO was removed from our CMAS courses, around 1985, we replaced it with an horse-collar BCD, and the exercises about buoyancy control remained substantially the same (and, again, the standard equilibrium position was assumed to be VERTICAL).
But this happened just before I stopped working as an instructor, so I do not know how the situation evolved during the following 35 years.
I assume that at a certain point someone decided that the standard trim had to be changed from vertical to horizontal, as I see most divers nowadays are trained to always remain horizontal (also when it is obviously wrong, as inside a vertical pipe)...

 

[The Chairman]

as I see most divers nowadays are trained to always remain horizontal

Hmnn, I see a lot of divers with their feet dangling, almost at a 45⁰ angle.

 

[Scott G. Bonser]

Thank You Chairman. Buoyancy and control and ‘trim/neutrality’ should be explained before getting into pool on 1st intro dive. I am most distraught by divers, both newbies and yes, experienced divers settling on the bottom and start their ascent to the next layer in he water column by flipping & flopping in fine sand and silt clouding up the water for others. Sometimes it can’t be avoided but folks should try. B C D inflator buttons are very easy to master this technique, but vintage divers can inhale and lift legs from bottom and carefully push off of bottom with their hands…some but very little impact to bottom silt this method…it is a really cool challenge to be able to generate as little silt as possible …best policy is stay as neutral as possible in the water column well above the surface…

 

[The Chairman]

Sometimes it can’t be avoided but folks should try

It can always be avoided. Never a need to touch the bottom, much less push off of it.

 

[Scott G. Bonser]

..it’s all in what the instructor(s) teach in their class and help each student achieve trim..,,& why it is important..,