when a wreck becomes a gravesite?

[salty]

I would like to add a little here from another point of view. I am a licensed officer in the merchant marine. I sailed for several years both off shore and in costal shipping. A ship is a ship to most of you but to any one who ever spent more than a day aboard working a ship becomes a home. I dive wrecks and i hope that the sailors who perished on thous wrecks appreicate me diving them because it perserves there memories. I think alot about life aboard these wrecks I visiet, most are turn of the century shailing ships that are nothing more than scatered wreakage on the bottom, but some are more recient such as the U-853. I respect these sailors and the ships that they sailed, would I ever discrase them by handling there bones, not intenualy. But I can not help but feel a very close conection to them personaly. When I recover an artifact i perserve it and display it and tell everyone who asks all the historical information i can regarding the wreck, the artifact, and the sailors who sailed aboard the ship. Once agan perserving their memories. I can only hope that 100 years from now people have a conection to something that was close to me. There are fine lines in all things, and a$$holes every where. I have heard stories of skull retrival from wrecks and just yesterday two teens were aressated for grave desacration at a local cematary.
Basicly it comes down to personal feelings, if you wish to show reverance by diving a wreck that could be considered a grave site and not touching anything than thats fine, if you wish to be more personaly conected by recovering some artifact than good. As I said earlier I only hope to be rembered in sone way 100 years from now.

 

[Louie]

We need an overall approach to this problem and as with most things in life, it won't be simple or straightforward.

Education is crucial for the diving community and everyone who come into contact with the environment. The Red Sea is an example of a region where governments and organisations have placed a great deal of effort into informing people the importance of looking after the reef. Dive operators do all to enforce the "no touch" rule and those taking flights into Hurghada or Sharm are subjected to the "Don't touch the Reef" film on those tedious flights.
Management and some form of regulation is (sadly) necessary. This already occurs on many sites. One of the most unfortunate spectacles I've ever seen was a newly certified open water student down on a very well-known wreck losing buoyancy control and crushing glass artifacts. Form of management would obviously differ from site to site and according to the importance of a wreck. You don't see divers doing their PADI Advanced Wreck Dive in Pearl Harbour on the Arizona. On the other hand, a discarded Ford Escort on the bottom of the sea would not classify as a historically significant wreck.
As for policing and prosecution of offenders, this is necessary because a thieving s*%t who knows s/he can make money from plundering wrecks will only be deterred by the prospect of a heavy penalty, financial or otherwise.

 

[Adam Samansky]

salty once bubbled...
As a fellwo merchant marine officer, I concur that a ship is more than a ship, "she" becomes a part of you and you a part of "her." Shipwrecks are more than just a heap on junk on the ocean floor. Most especially, war graves are to be kept sacred. All sunken warships are OWNED by their flag-nation unless that nation affirmatively abandones it (read, you could be in serious doodoo with a navy for "attacking" or "stealing" from their ship.

Adam

 

[WreckWriter]

salty once bubbled...
I would like to add a little here from another point of view.

I don't think that's another point of view at all. You expressed my feelings very well.

WW

 

[WreckWriter]

Adam Samansky once bubbled...
[QUOTE(read, you could be in serious doodoo with a navy for "attacking" or "stealing" from their ship.

Adam

So everyone diving sunken U-boats should be concerned about the German navy? That's a joke, right?

WW

 

[The Pirate]

Tim Ingersoll once bubbled...
I also think that any artifacts associated with a dead body should definitely be off limits. Other artifacts should be salvageable.

Its called archeology and underwater archeology? I don't think the DB cares one way or the other.

The Pirate

 

[Tim Ingersoll]

There's a difference betwen digging at a two thousand year old village and a fifty year old World War II wreck. Isn't that obvious?

 

[AquaTec]

Just some quick thoughts on wrecks and graves....i haven't read all the posts and i am just catching up here. so some of this may be repetative.

I dive on war graves, so my oppenions may be one sided.

the way you dive on any wreck weather a grave or not is all about respect. I know there are two camps on this on saying that you should grab all you can from the wreck before the ocean consumes her. the other camp says leave everything for others to appreciate.

as for these two camps my oppinion is that if you are removing stuff to place in a musium or other place were the general public can view them, and they are presented in an informative professional manner then this is an acseptable procedure.

If however you are grabbing stuff and just pilling it up in your garage or even displaying it in a manner that does not identify were it came from etc, like some dive shops do. then this is wrong.

now you take my attitude to a wreck and apply it to ones were people have lost their lives or were there may still be bodies on board. you need to double your level of respect dive the ship knowing that you are inside a tomb and honor those around you.

I do not feel they should be off limits, as it is a part of history the same as Getysberg is and we would all enjoy a visit there, and we would all take a moment to honor those bellow our feet as we walked around...however none of us would dissasembly the memorials in order to have our own little trophy at home in the corner of the garage would we.

Attached is a photo of a gas mask worn by a Japanese sailor who lost his life fighting to get out of the burning ship sunk in Truuk Lagoon. This is on the San Fransisco Maru at 220 feet. next to this gas mask was a fire extinguasher and some human remains.
I thought the china tea pot and the little flower made an interesting natural mamorial to over two hundred men still on board

 

[AquaTec]

Tim Ingersoll once bubbled...
There's a difference betwen digging at a two thousand year old village and a fifty year old World War II wreck. Isn't that obvious?

I am a little dense, so can you explain the difference.

 

[AquaTec]

salty once bubbled...
I dive wrecks and i hope that the sailors who perished on thous wrecks appreicate me diving them because it perserves there memories. I think alot about life aboard these wrecks I visiet
I respect these sailors and the ships that they sailed, would I ever discrase them by handling there bones, not intenualy. But I can not help but feel a very close conection to them personaly. When I recover an artifact i perserve it and display it and tell everyone who asks all the historical information i can regarding the wreck, the artifact, and the sailors who sailed aboard the ship. Once agan perserving their memories.

Well said Salty....my feelings as well