I, like other Dive Masters, have two different octos; one for teaching and one for personal use. The octo. that I use for class is one configured with a short hose and an alternate attached to the BC within the triangle (chin to the rib cage). I use this configeration while assisting the students, in that we are all diving the same configeration, and if an emergency comes up the students can count on me having the same set up as they do. However, since I have expanded my training to include TDI, we utilize the long hose. The only trouble that I have had had is when I was with a friend and I was testing out the long hose donation I came upon a new problem. Since I wear a snorkel, when I went to donate the long hose it got "caught" on something. Thinking that it was the tank valve, I gave it a "slight" jerk which in turn snagged the snorkel and flooded the mask. A lession learned in why, (I think), is one reason that ones that teach the long hose donation never use snorkels. Other than that, I believe that ALL Dive Masters should wear the same configeration as the students do.
What's wrong with long hose
- Thread starter animian2002
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I agree that it's best for every one diving together to have the same configuration.
I can even understant those who teach to donate an octo that's straped to their chest if that's really what they think works best.
I can't even come close to understandaing to ones who say that they dive one way and teach another.
But....
Most divers will never have an OOA. Let's assume for a minute that the typical way woks ok. ok? Look at a diver cinfigured the traditional way. They look loke a Christmas bow comming through the water. There are big loops of hose sticking out every where. Ever notice that when you give a good hard kick you can feel the reg hose just vibrate as it drags through the water. If you have all your hoses up against your body you eliminate that drag and clean up all those unsightly snagy loops.
Other problems with it...
You need an octo holder that allows the reg to be pulled out. Well half the time the reg just falles out and the diver doesn't notice til later. Hopefully it would be quick enough if his buddy went OOA.
Some one mentioned using a scum ball earlier. These and other holders sometimes cause a reg to free flow or worse yet just seep air. No good especially in cold water. If the reg is under your chin you'll know if they're is a problem and there's nothing about the arangement to cause it.
What about the area between you chin and the corners of the rib cage for an octo? Well that chest area might be right in your face if the diver is vertical but what if they're in the position that gives the most control and ability to get to you in the first place HORIZONTAL! Now you can't easily see or reach the divers chest. Beside if you look at how most people clip these things, while the clip might be in that area, the reg hangs in a place that isn't.
It's one problem encouraging another. We have all these divers vertical and so we think the chest is a good place for an octo. It works great while kneeling on the bottom.
The way it should work is that when you signal, you buddy moves toward you facing you and horizontal. Way you see is their face and in the middle of that face is a functioning reg. If your buddy is paying attention he's already put his hand on his reg and extended it streight out to you. No looking or feeling for it. No pulling it out of some stupid clippy thing.
Again the traditional setup works best while kneeling on the pool bottom.
Now lets talk about how so many instructors really do it...
I'll bet that at least 80% of the students I see just have their octo hanging loose. That's not only sloppy but it's dangerous. On close examination I see that most of those students aren't even given anything to use to clip it in the firstplace. I wish some one whould try to justify that crap. I see it so often that I almost have to believe that at least one of those instructors reads this board.
I can even understant those who teach to donate an octo that's straped to their chest if that's really what they think works best.
I can't even come close to understandaing to ones who say that they dive one way and teach another.
But....
Most divers will never have an OOA. Let's assume for a minute that the typical way woks ok. ok? Look at a diver cinfigured the traditional way. They look loke a Christmas bow comming through the water. There are big loops of hose sticking out every where. Ever notice that when you give a good hard kick you can feel the reg hose just vibrate as it drags through the water. If you have all your hoses up against your body you eliminate that drag and clean up all those unsightly snagy loops.
Other problems with it...
You need an octo holder that allows the reg to be pulled out. Well half the time the reg just falles out and the diver doesn't notice til later. Hopefully it would be quick enough if his buddy went OOA.
Some one mentioned using a scum ball earlier. These and other holders sometimes cause a reg to free flow or worse yet just seep air. No good especially in cold water. If the reg is under your chin you'll know if they're is a problem and there's nothing about the arangement to cause it.
What about the area between you chin and the corners of the rib cage for an octo? Well that chest area might be right in your face if the diver is vertical but what if they're in the position that gives the most control and ability to get to you in the first place HORIZONTAL! Now you can't easily see or reach the divers chest. Beside if you look at how most people clip these things, while the clip might be in that area, the reg hangs in a place that isn't.
It's one problem encouraging another. We have all these divers vertical and so we think the chest is a good place for an octo. It works great while kneeling on the bottom.
The way it should work is that when you signal, you buddy moves toward you facing you and horizontal. Way you see is their face and in the middle of that face is a functioning reg. If your buddy is paying attention he's already put his hand on his reg and extended it streight out to you. No looking or feeling for it. No pulling it out of some stupid clippy thing.
Again the traditional setup works best while kneeling on the pool bottom.
Now lets talk about how so many instructors really do it...
I'll bet that at least 80% of the students I see just have their octo hanging loose. That's not only sloppy but it's dangerous. On close examination I see that most of those students aren't even given anything to use to clip it in the firstplace. I wish some one whould try to justify that crap. I see it so often that I almost have to believe that at least one of those instructors reads this board.
Ryukyu-diver:
From a horizontal position...duck your head slightly as you extend the reg streight out to the OOA diver. Do not lift the reg and hose over your head. If you do it this way it'll even slide over a snorkel easily without snagging. Your right hand should travel streight from your mouth to in front of your buddies face with out the lifting up and over motion.
From a horizontal position...
1, grab reg by the hose close to the second stage to expose the purge
2, With a twist of the wrist, remove reg from mouth and point the mouth piece down so it doesn't free flow.
3, extend reg streight to buddy while ducking head slightly. We just let the hose glide over the back of the head and no other movement is needed.
4, now you can point the mouth piece toward the diver and/or hand it off. Once the reg is extended you can put your backup in your mouth. Don't do it before.
Deploy your spg for both to see and decide what needs to be done next.
I know that this issue has been addressed before. Our shop used to teach with the inflator regs (which I use in recreational gear to cut down on that extra hose). They don't now unless it is the student's own gear (in which case we will teach them wearing just about anything as long as it is safe). The last session will be in cheap traditional rental gear.
The reason for this was customers that had problems with gear when they went on vacation and rented gear. They had only used the "good stuff" and were not familar with the octopus type setup.
On fun dives, as a DiveCon I wear any gear that I want unless the shop doesn't carry it. On those occassions, I tend to use a long hose for the simple reason that I have probably been in doubles the day before and it is one less hose to switch. I, too, have been known to have problems retrieving that reg that may be five feet from me and have to resort to breathing from the one below my neck until I figure it out. That is the only problem that I have with a long hose set-up.
In any case, I am but the DiveCon. I have recreational gear and I am expected to use it. The reasons for that philosphy have discussed in this thread ad nausem and I will not elaborate for that reason. If I was the instructor, I may have a little more say in what the students are shown. Once the students certify, I will show them any set-up that I use. Until they certify, I will not sabotage an instructor by bringing up things outside the scope of the course.
The reason for this was customers that had problems with gear when they went on vacation and rented gear. They had only used the "good stuff" and were not familar with the octopus type setup.
On fun dives, as a DiveCon I wear any gear that I want unless the shop doesn't carry it. On those occassions, I tend to use a long hose for the simple reason that I have probably been in doubles the day before and it is one less hose to switch. I, too, have been known to have problems retrieving that reg that may be five feet from me and have to resort to breathing from the one below my neck until I figure it out. That is the only problem that I have with a long hose set-up.
In any case, I am but the DiveCon. I have recreational gear and I am expected to use it. The reasons for that philosphy have discussed in this thread ad nausem and I will not elaborate for that reason. If I was the instructor, I may have a little more say in what the students are shown. Once the students certify, I will show them any set-up that I use. Until they certify, I will not sabotage an instructor by bringing up things outside the scope of the course.
Amen to that!!!MikeFerrara:
MikeFerrara:
Thanks for the information and I wiil put it to use.
Had a bit of fun in the pool with my instructor last week as we floated around. After teling me earlier to 'be ready for anything' he ripped my reg out of my mouth. Looked at him and thought DOH, and then stuck alternate in gub. No problems, but all in a controlled environment. Good thing to practice in my book no matter what hose you have.
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