What's with Suunto?

[DavidFL]

My first dive computer is a Suunto Gekko (sort of a predecessor to the Zoop and Novo) bought in about 2007; I have replaced the battery three times I think and I still have and use it for a backup; I have had zero issues with that computer. My second computer is a Suunto Cobra 2, with which I have also had zero problems. As far as quality and reliability go, they get a very favorable recommendation.

My main dive buddy has computers from a different manufacturer that use a different algorithm; we have several hundred dives together; I can remember two dives where the NDL time remaining on my Suunto PDC was the reason for ending a dive.

A couple of years ago, partially as a result of SB, I decided to try to learn a lot more about decompression and algorithms. I've watched some great video (i.e. Simon Mitchell); read a great book (i.e. Mark Powell); followed threads with thousands of posts (i.e. the NEDU study) on SB and various rebreather forums.

Today I'm diving with a Shearwater Perdix as my primary PDC and still using the Suunto Cobra 2 as a backup. I've learned a lot from comparing the two, especially since both support downloads to computers. At this point I have had the confidence from my own personal experience and comparison of the recommendations of the two dive computers in use to occasionally disregard the Suunto near the end of a dive, but the conservatism is a useful input to my decision making....when I choose to follow the Shearwater (nearly always an NDL difference) I have mentally asked myself about the "usual suspects" (effects on displayed NDL from ascent rate, reverse profiles, surface interval) and whether there is some personal value to me from staying a little longer that balances the risk equation for me.

Bottom line: my Suunto PDC's have held up well, the algorithm(s) are proprietary and have a reputation for "conservatism", and at the recreational diving level I believe they deliver good value for money.

 

[tbone1004]

So @tbone1004, would you suggest I pass on the vyper for $150 and go with the geo 2.0 for $270? Even if I only get about 20 dives a year?

I'd say go get a used Nitek Duo/Cressi Archimede II etc. The bunch of computers made by Seiko. Can usually get them between $150-$200
Dive Rite Nitek Duo Air/Nitrox Computer | eBay

Gives you basically what the Geo 2.0 does, just a bit larger form factor

 

[GreggS]

I've always used Suunto PDCs. Started out with a used Gekko that came with a set of equipment I bought just after getting certified. When it stopped working (I think it had not been used in several years and just gave up from non-use) , I bought a new Vyper Air that went wonky after a year of use which was replaced under warranty with a new Vyper Novo. My wife has a Zoop so we both use the same algorithm.

Speaking of which, so far, I have had no issues with the conservatism of the Suuntos. I'm almost 62 years old and somewhat overweight, but in generally good health otherwise. And while I know that some divers want to squeeze every minute they can out of a dive, I feel comfortable with the algorithm used in the Suuntos. Since I do a lot of quarry diving, the algorithm is a non-issue. But when I do ocean dives, they are usually from 60-110 feet. I usually run low on air before I run out of bottom time and no, I'm no longer a gas hog. I can do a 70-80 feet deep dive with an AL80 and get 45-50 minutes. Several times, I have been one of the first to splash and the last to come up, so I'm as good or better than a lot of my buddies.

That being said, if I ever have to replace my current computer, I might look at other brands, particularly the Shearwater, but only because I've heard and read such good things about them. But, personally, I don't have a problem with the Suunto.

And of course, YMMV.

 

[Diver0001]

I like the features of the Zoop Novo for a beginning computer - the display is good, I like the ability to set alarms, and I really like that it flashes the display (AND backlight on Novo) if you violate ascent rate, depth, etc. And Novo makes you press a button to acknowledge the violation before it stops beeping/flashing.

BESIDES the 'conservatism' I've been seeing complaints about 'self diving', sticky buttons, sending new units back, and even read about a class action suit for neglecting to address something with an internal component (pressure gauge maybe?). Given the popularity? it's hard to believe it's that bad?

Leisure Pro has a good deal on the old Zoop (new) and has a used Novo. I feel like the used PDC is a risk given all the crap I've read about. The old Zoop still has most of the features I like.

I have a used Veo 180. The backlight doesn't work, its never given me an indication of exceeding the ascent rate despite the log book saying I violated it EVERY dive, the single button is clunky, etc. I feel like it needs to go in for overhaul, but I don't know if I should spend $125 for that, or just buy a Novo.

I think it's a case of "tall trees catch a lot of wind". Many brands of computers have problems but Suunto are a big player and when one person mentions something, 10 other people chime in. Over a batch of maybe a 100,000 computers that's not a large failure rate but when 10 people on an internet thread are talking about it then it seems like a big problem.

Compare that the the VR3, which was a technical computer that was popular about 10-15 years ago. Anecdotally I can say that EVERY VR3 I've ever seen has failed. In fact I don't even think the manufacturer exists any more. Now THAT is a large failure rate but you would never know it because hardly anyone talks about it online.

That said, I think that issues with the pressure transducer seems to be a bigger problem with Suunto computer than with other brands (explains the self-divers and some other issues like abnormally large depth deviations). I'm sure other computers must have this problem too because I"m sure Suunto doesn't make their own pressure transducers but maybe there is something about the way they build them into the computer that makes them vulnerable. In any case this is one thing I hear MORE of with Suunto computers than I hear with other computers. I've also heard some stories about Suunto being uncooperative in regards to servicing them. Again, this is anecdotal.

R..

 

[Diver0001]

So @tbone1004, would you suggest I pass on the vyper for $150 and go with the geo 2.0 for $270? Even if I only get about 20 dives a year?

Personally I find the Oceanic and Cressi computers unintuitive to use. The shop where I work has the Mares Puck in their rental stock and I find that computer very easy to use. YYMV, this is just my opinion.

I think you can get a new Puck for about the same price as a 2nd hand Vyper and since you aren't diving much it may be a better choice for you because you won't forget how it works from one time to the next (or at least I wouldn't).

R..

 

[Aloha Joe]

Where can you get a Geo for $270?

 

[thbcthomas]

Where can you get a Geo for $270?

Sent you a pm.

 

[dmaziuk]

I also do NOT like, or recommend anything that beeps. Beeping computers are the absolute most useless and frustrating thing in the water. Someones computer goes off and everyone starts looking at theirs trying to figure out what is going on, you never know if it's yours, etc.

That pesky beeping teaches you to stop waving your arms while bouncing up and down. Once you learn to keep yours quiet, you know it's most likely not yours.

 

[Aloha Joe]

That pesky beeping teaches you to stop waving your arms while bouncing up and down. Once you learn to keep yours quiet, you know it's most likely not yours.

Ha! I thought my ascent meter was bad because it says I exceeded the limit in every dive, even 26ft OW Cert dives. But I just downloaded the dive profiles and saw there’s no way I could have ascended that fast where it says I went over. So I realized, it was probably some arm flailing! I didn’t recall any beeping or flashing but I’ll pay more attention (and stop flailing).

 

[thbcthomas]

Personally I find the Oceanic and Cressi computers unintuitive to use. The shop where I work has the Mares Puck in their rental stock and I find that computer very easy to use. YYMV, this is just my opinion.

I think you can get a new Puck for about the same price as a 2nd hand Vyper and since you aren't diving much it may be a better choice for you because you won't forget how it works from one time to the next (or at least I wouldn't).

R..

I went with the vyper over the puck pro because the vyper has 3 buttons. Tried out a puck pro months ago and did not like the 1 button operation.