OP
JT2
Guest
So very true!
What's up with poorly equiped Public Safety divers?
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ages
Contributor
I don't know about a lot of dive teams, but I am a member of our SEAS team. We are the underwater rescue and recovery team in Juneau Alaska. We are all volunteer. All our equipment is purchased by ourselves. We do not all have the latest and greatest, but we are required to keep our gear tuned up frequently. In addition, each of us is required to spend a minimum of 3 hours underwater each month (even in the dead of winter when the temp is well below freezing and the winds are howling).
Drills and practice sessions are the times to get out, and make mistakes. Having been on call-outs, believe me, you want to make all your mistakes in training sessions. In addition, when we have divers or tenders in training, the sessions may look pretty aweful. Again it is a learning time.
We do a great deal of work tended....single diver in the water, safety diver at ready, and a tender with a line between them and you. Underwater com gear is very expensive....most of us cannot afford it. We work in dark, cold, very low viz conditions. These are often not good conditions to have "buddy teams" in the water. You can cover a great deal of ground using a circular and sweep pattern.
While the team you watched may not have met your higher standards, I recommend you volunteer to become a member. Perhaps your experience and training could add some professionalism to the group. But, if like ours, don't come in as a know-it-all, they are not appreciated either!!
ages
Drills and practice sessions are the times to get out, and make mistakes. Having been on call-outs, believe me, you want to make all your mistakes in training sessions. In addition, when we have divers or tenders in training, the sessions may look pretty aweful. Again it is a learning time.
We do a great deal of work tended....single diver in the water, safety diver at ready, and a tender with a line between them and you. Underwater com gear is very expensive....most of us cannot afford it. We work in dark, cold, very low viz conditions. These are often not good conditions to have "buddy teams" in the water. You can cover a great deal of ground using a circular and sweep pattern.
While the team you watched may not have met your higher standards, I recommend you volunteer to become a member. Perhaps your experience and training could add some professionalism to the group. But, if like ours, don't come in as a know-it-all, they are not appreciated either!!
ages
The sad thing is that few Instructors know anything about Public Safety (PS) diving, yet the department is lead to believe that any scuba instructor can teach public safety diving.
I've sat and chatted with some teams that are basically clueless about what equipment is needed, the appropriate procedures for PS diving, how to conduct a proper search, and what to do afterwards. Many times, the "recovery" is done by the only divers handy: the local dive club or shop. This destroys any chain of evidence that would be usable in court (99% of a PSD's dive time is evidence recovery, NOT body recovery).
An agency can't just decide one day to start a dive team and have it operational. Takes months and months of practice and training to even get to be an entry level PS diver, IMHO.
(Unfortunately, I'm a poorly funded PS Diver, but our agency does let me run all the training, so in another year, we might be operational. For an official case, I won't let them in the water yet).
I've sat and chatted with some teams that are basically clueless about what equipment is needed, the appropriate procedures for PS diving, how to conduct a proper search, and what to do afterwards. Many times, the "recovery" is done by the only divers handy: the local dive club or shop. This destroys any chain of evidence that would be usable in court (99% of a PSD's dive time is evidence recovery, NOT body recovery).
An agency can't just decide one day to start a dive team and have it operational. Takes months and months of practice and training to even get to be an entry level PS diver, IMHO.
(Unfortunately, I'm a poorly funded PS Diver, but our agency does let me run all the training, so in another year, we might be operational. For an official case, I won't let them in the water yet).
All you whining about the quality of public safety divers.. what are you doing about it? Have you volunteered yet? Offered a training program? Approached your politicians with a plan to better use available funds?
Anyone can whine.
To fix it you have to get up and go do something.
And more taxes, by the way, won't fix anything.
Rick
(Our situation is as bad as anyone's - but we're actively training, cajoling, urging and improving. You can too.)
Anyone can whine.
To fix it you have to get up and go do something.
And more taxes, by the way, won't fix anything.
Rick
(Our situation is as bad as anyone's - but we're actively training, cajoling, urging and improving. You can too.)
OP
JT2
Guest
Believe me Rick, I am going to see what I can do to better the situation, although it is going to take more than just myself. As far as volunteering goes, I would love to, but our local guys are all firemen and police officers, that is the prerequisite, and that counts me out.
Aquamaniac
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Rick.
Thats a very good point, and im interested in the results of that question.
In western Australia, we have an agency called the State Emergency Service.
This is a group of volunteers (over 5000), who train at least once a week in search and rescue techniques.
In the event of a missing person, natural disater , or anything that requires manpower, the SES is called to duty.
They also provide support to the Fire Department.
The Service is divided into regional centres, and every centre is funded by its own local government. Each centre has its own specialties depending on the surrounding environment. Ie, a division that lies next to a river will be flood trained, a division that lies in the hills will be CRT (cliff rescue) trained.
Each division has its own Headquarters and buildings, complete with emergency vehicles and equipment.
If bad weather effects housing and people, the SES are out there in the wind and rain covering houses/patching roofs/clearing trees.
All of this is done with volunteers, its a great heart warming service.
I was a Team leader with Stirling SES (in WA) for 3 years before moving to the USA, since being here I have been looking for anything similar, and have yet to find it.
Before leaving, I was in the process of accrediting our unit with Dive rescue.
Perhaps this kind of thing could work over here?
http://www.ses.wa.gov.au
Thats a very good point, and im interested in the results of that question.
In western Australia, we have an agency called the State Emergency Service.
This is a group of volunteers (over 5000), who train at least once a week in search and rescue techniques.
In the event of a missing person, natural disater , or anything that requires manpower, the SES is called to duty.
They also provide support to the Fire Department.
The Service is divided into regional centres, and every centre is funded by its own local government. Each centre has its own specialties depending on the surrounding environment. Ie, a division that lies next to a river will be flood trained, a division that lies in the hills will be CRT (cliff rescue) trained.
Each division has its own Headquarters and buildings, complete with emergency vehicles and equipment.
If bad weather effects housing and people, the SES are out there in the wind and rain covering houses/patching roofs/clearing trees.
All of this is done with volunteers, its a great heart warming service.
I was a Team leader with Stirling SES (in WA) for 3 years before moving to the USA, since being here I have been looking for anything similar, and have yet to find it.
Before leaving, I was in the process of accrediting our unit with Dive rescue.
Perhaps this kind of thing could work over here?
http://www.ses.wa.gov.au
Arduous
Contributor
We dont see things differently JT2. The team you described has no business doing public safety diving. If they are only OW & AOW, then how do they know how to conduct a proper search. If they are not rescue certified, then how could they help each other out of a jam, never mind anyone else. ? And I said most do it because they care not all. Diving is no different than any other activity you can do. In any activity there are those who are exceptional , those who are average, those who are less than average and then those who should have stayed home. I work for a municipality. I have seen good cops and bad cops. I have seen good firemen and bad firemen and the bad ones have no business being out there
.Arduous
ages
Contributor
Our underwater search and recovery used to be part of the Fire Department. They fell into the failure to practice, etc. While the city provided them with equipment, it was old and not maintained. After we had a young man die in a personal watercraft accident and no one searched for him (do to whatever politics were at play in the fire department), our volunteer team formed. We have slowly removed the search and recovery from the Fire Department and now have City provided pagers. We are called out by the City police dispatchers (or by the State Troopers for remote search and recovery). Our team has worked with the National Guard for BlackHawk training, worked with the Coast Guard, trained with Swift Water Rescue, SEADOGS, etc. It is hard work and a huge commitment of time....but very much worth it. If you have a team that is in such disarray, and you are willing to make the commitment, I say go for it. But be prepared to take a couple years to get accomplished, accepted, and used. ages
Most SAR dive teams in both the USA and Canada are volunteer organizations. Yes some are limited to Fire Departments or Police. But there are a lot of areas that will use volunteer help.
So like Rick said, get out there and volunteer your time, expertise, etc.
As for the way they dive don't be too eager to criticize it is different. You should dive alone, holding onto a line [not tied to it], have a proper support team above water, etc, etc.
and you can expect black water, dead decomposed bodies, tedious searches for small stuff. Politics at every corner, bad gear, children drowning. And a real feeling of accomplishment that will last a life time the first time you save someones life
you can receive training from the organizations attached here
http://www.diverescueintl.com/
http://www.iadrs.org/
http://www.teamlgs.com/
Dive Rescue International is the most widely recognized
As for gear, most teams will let you provide your own gear, unless they have a set standard for gear which in that case they usually provide it for you.
So like Rick said, get out there and volunteer your time, expertise, etc.
As for the way they dive don't be too eager to criticize it is different. You should dive alone, holding onto a line [not tied to it], have a proper support team above water, etc, etc.
and you can expect black water, dead decomposed bodies, tedious searches for small stuff. Politics at every corner, bad gear, children drowning. And a real feeling of accomplishment that will last a life time the first time you save someones life
you can receive training from the organizations attached here
http://www.diverescueintl.com/
http://www.iadrs.org/
http://www.teamlgs.com/
Dive Rescue International is the most widely recognized
As for gear, most teams will let you provide your own gear, unless they have a set standard for gear which in that case they usually provide it for you.
Bob3
Contributor
Public Safety Diving uses gear & techniques way different than sport diving, so don't be suprised if you run into a brick wall when trying to "translate" between the two.
Check out the links AquaTec posted & read up on things a bit.
If you're REALLY interested, at least a couple of those outfits listed offer PSD courses.
The biggest no-nos I see listed in the post are:
no pony
using doubles
and the most grevious: lack of experience (probably lacking in training as well).
Some sport items that don't work out well for PSDing:
wings
doubles
long hoses (unless diving surface air)
in-water buddy
vented fins
Check out the links AquaTec posted & read up on things a bit.
If you're REALLY interested, at least a couple of those outfits listed offer PSD courses.
The biggest no-nos I see listed in the post are:
no pony
using doubles
and the most grevious: lack of experience (probably lacking in training as well).
Some sport items that don't work out well for PSDing:
wings
doubles
long hoses (unless diving surface air)
in-water buddy
vented fins
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