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fisherdvm

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I went diving today with a man who completed his DM requirement, but still needed another 20 dives. We dove a shallow dive for one and one half hours. I enjoyed the long cold dive... and was happy to log it as a navigation dive. The man said that he was told to do bounce dives, and surfacing with each 800psi, so it will count as 3 dives. In the same way, I was told that our rescue OW session counted as 3 dives. I just logged it as 1. Are bounce dives legitimate? I've read it in the thread about logging dives.... Is it encouraged by any agencies? Probably not...
 
In my personal opinion, which should not be construed as the opinion of any instructor, shop, or agency, an instructor who tells a DM student to do bounce dives to meet a prerequisite for certification is a bad instructor. I would consider any such instructor to be doing a disservice to himself, his student, and all those with whom the student will work in the future. (You can be God's gift to diving, but if you don't have the dives yet, I am sure you'll be even better once you're there, and gaming the system is not a lesson anyone should teach such a great diver as you.)

Of course, I may have an overdeveloped sense of honor and duty, but if I were to ever see a logbook such as that, I would fall back to the "Dives shall be varied in environment, depth, and activities." line from the NAUI S&P manual. As I interpret that (and I will certainly tell prospective leadership-level students before they begin), all dives done to "minimum loggable dive" standards that I believe were for the sole purpose of inflating a logged dives count will be expressly discounted. I won't be harsh or anything -- even though I find such dives well outside the realm of good and responsible diving, I will not additionally penalize the count of actual dives once those are eliminated. :biggrin:

I've actually seen a diver who met the logged dives count who was told that his dives were not in sufficiently broad conditions to be acceptable. He had to go out and dive somewhere other than our checkout trips and Cozumel in order to be broad-based enough to make an acceptable DM candidate. This, I firmly believe, was far better than the diametrically-opposed example of logging to-the-minimum dives just to have some arbitrary number.
 
That DM Candidate should be embarassed to call himself one. Anybody who would scrimp on actual experience requirements puts the students at risk. Disgraceful, and it detracts from the DM rank for those of us who busted our ass to do it legit!
 
I really think the problem is that people who haven't experienced a bunch of dives in different places and different conditions don't understand how much there is to learn from doing that. A dive's a dive, right? Doing the absolute minimum to qualify as a "dive" is fine, because nothing's going to happen in a longer one that's going to teach me anything more. And if one's mentor is encouraging this behavior, it's only reinforced.

I shudder to think how close I came to being the 100 dive instructor. Even without padding the numbers, it just wouldn't have been anywhere near enough. I'm over 500 now -- It's still not enough.
 
We had a running joke about one DM candidate who it seemed counted falls into mud puddles as dives.He did the rescue scenario where we went down 3 times to recover an unconscious diver as 3 dives instead of 1. His rationale was if his comp counted it it was a dive. Well it was set so if a surface time of 3 minutes occured it reset for the next dive. I'd have been ashamed but in his log were numerous 3 minute dives with 5 minute intervals. The instructor fortunately did not accept them.

I had enough dives to go for instructor last year. 2 of the biggest reasons for not doing it were time and I felt I needed more experience in different conditions. As I decided to wait more things became apparent. I wanted more dive time away from students, more training, and the agency I was planning on doing Instructor with became more and more unattractive to me. While I'm keeping my DM status with that agency I'll not be teaching thru it. Too many things have come out that I do not agree with in terms of standards, teaching methods, amount of money one has to spend for materials, and the focus on money.

I too have heard of Instructors and Instructor Trainers telling people to count dives like this and even count pool sessions to get their count up. As stated I could have started but chose to wait. Since then I've nearly doubled my numbers and gotten some technical training. More importantly I've gotten the experience I feel will serve my students best.

I've got experience now in fresh and salt. Logged more night and low vis, deep dives beyond rec limits( this really opened my eyes to what I was starting to consider as routine those dives in the 100-130 ft range, they are not routine), and while having alot in what I call warm water, I've gotten many more in cold stuff. Monterey in 54 degree to Lake Erie where bottom temps of 38-40 are common.

I've also become more familiar with different agencies and found one whose standards and procedures I'm comfortable with from both a teaching standpoint and from an ethical one as well. In about 3 and 1/2 weeks I do my Instructor exams with the YMCA. It will be an intense 4 days. But the experience and teaching opportunities I've had in the last year have, I think, prepared me well. No shortcuts or cutting of corners. Just good training coupled with experience in a wide variety of places under lots of different conditions and a willingness to work hard are what's required. Cutting corners and taking shortcuts gets people hurt or dead.
 
I went diving today with a man who completed his DM requirement, but still needed another 20 dives. We dove a shallow dive for one and one half hours. I enjoyed the long cold dive... and was happy to log it as a navigation dive. The man said that he was told to do bounce dives, and surfacing with each 800psi, so it will count as 3 dives. In the same way, I was told that our rescue OW session counted as 3 dives. I just logged it as 1. Are bounce dives legitimate? I've read it in the thread about logging dives.... Is it encouraged by any agencies? Probably not...
They're probably in a rush to get his DM qualification complete so they can sign him up for instructor training.

The dude will probably be a course director in a year ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)
 
I went diving today with a man who completed his DM requirement, but still needed another 20 dives. We dove a shallow dive for one and one half hours. I enjoyed the long cold dive... and was happy to log it as a navigation dive. The man said that he was told to do bounce dives, and surfacing with each 800psi, so it will count as 3 dives. In the same way, I was told that our rescue OW session counted as 3 dives. I just logged it as 1. Are bounce dives legitimate? I've read it in the thread about logging dives.... Is it encouraged by any agencies? Probably not...

Whole thing sounds pretty lame to me. I am sure he won't make much of a DM. BTW were the surface intervals at least 10 minutes? I don't know if he could even count them as multiples.
 
Whole thing sounds pretty lame to me. I am sure he won't make much of a DM. BTW were the surface intervals at least 10 minutes? I don't know if he could even count them as multiples.
If they were NAUI training dives, they must also have at least one entry and exit, so no floating "SI". :wink:
 
If they were NAUI training dives, they must also have at least one entry and exit, so no floating "SI". :wink:

Hmmm. Good point. I hope I don't get this guy as a DM on any boat I dive off of.
 
I went diving today with a man who completed his DM requirement, but still needed another 20 dives. We dove a shallow dive for one and one half hours. I enjoyed the long cold dive... and was happy to log it as a navigation dive. The man said that he was told to do bounce dives, and surfacing with each 800psi, so it will count as 3 dives. In the same way, I was told that our rescue OW session counted as 3 dives. I just logged it as 1. Are bounce dives legitimate? I've read it in the thread about logging dives.... Is it encouraged by any agencies? Probably not...
Sadly, I've seen lots of this here in Thailand. I guess it's pretty common and widely accepted. Very bad practice in my opinion.

I've also been looked down upon by a DMT who only had started diving one month before and had about 40 dives to show and was logging dives this way. He was of course much more advanced than I ever could have been since he started his DM training one week before I had. He was never short on advice too, no matter if he had zero experience outside a couple of warm water shallow dives. And this showed every time there was a problem with an OWD student during the dive. But, that guy's attitude was a great laugh for the rest of us. :D

IMO, It's very important to have dived in different conditions, different environments - more so than just having a nice round number to show.
 
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