What's the rush?

[fisherdvm]

The SI was about 2 to 6 minutes, floating on the water. He is a nice man, and probably will eventually be a good instructor. Actually, now I remembered, he was just laid off from his job. I can imagine it is a time to consider a job change. I can see where in this situation, you'd want to consider progressing rapidly so you can get paid, or consider going to instructor school. If the economy was better, perhaps we wouldn't have as many people rushing through any instruction.

 

[b1gcountry]

I've got plenty of logbook entries for <10 min dives. Some of the write-ups are very lengthy. You can learn some valuable lessons from dives gone wrong. Heck, you could learn some valuable things from just about every time you descended during a rescue class. Some times it's hard to decide what counts as a dive. I err on the side of recording more info, but I keep a very detailed dive log, and my point is not to get the most dives in, but to remember the dives as best as I can. I think the "number of dives" requirements are worthless.

 

[PepperDM]

I had a guy in my DM class who actually counted pool dives in his logbook!!! His rationale behind this was "If you are using your skills as a diver, underwater, it should be counted as a legitimate dive".

Personally, I keep two books. One records the actual dives I've completed as per PADI regs as my "official" logbook. The second is more of a what I learned/experienced on any particular day with reference to diving. Whether it be in the pool on my own practicing skills, with a student in a class or tied to an actual logged dive entry entry. I find it makes it easier for someone to decipher you book should they need to look at it.

 

[fisherdvm]

Not to divert from the topic, but if one is told that pool dives counts, then I guess I would count them. I don't number my pool dives, but I do have to say, the last 6 pool dives I've done, I learned a ton of stuff. I do have to log these dives (although not numbered) to prove credit for my DM course - and signed of course.

If one were to count only dives where you learn something, then certainly instructional pool dive would count.

I just hope that the drive to log up "real dives" does not discourage people from spending time in the pool. The best place for practice is often where it is shallow, and you can spend 3 to 5 hours just working on kicks or skills.

As we've beaten this topic to death.... A dive is what a diver chose to count. It is up to the instructor and agencies to set their own "dive" requirement. I remember that my son's SSI OW snorkeling skill (done on the surface0 that took only about 15 minutes was PRELABELED as a legitimate dive number.

 

[PepperDM]

Not to divert from the topic, but if one is told that pool dives counts, then I guess I would count them. I don't number my pool dives, but I do have to say, the last 6 pool dives I've done, I learned a ton of stuff. I do have to log these dives (although not numbered) to prove credit for my DM course - and signed of course.

I do not consider a dive outside of an open water setting as a legitimate numbered "log book" worthy dive. This is however exactly why I decided to keep two books. The second can be shown to my instructor to demonstrate what I have learned in the pool as well as on other legitimate ventures.

Practicing in the pool is a very important part of diving regardless of skill level. I still go twice a month with a group of friends to practice. It is the perfect setting to create and test multiple emergency situations prior to them happening on a real dive. This way, when things like an out of air emergency actually happen, you have run the drill 100 times before and are comfortable resolving it calmly on the bottom. As far as I am concerned, good skills and comfort underwater far outweighs a stupid number in your book.

 

[24940]

I remember that my son's SSI OW snorkeling skill (done on the surface0 that took only about 15 minutes was PRELABELED as a legitimate dive number.

The first certification dive for SSI is snorkeling and is the only time a snorkel dive is logged.

"Tea Bagging" as I recently heard it referred to as, seems far more common than I'd like to believe. I've heard of two local instructors that got their required "dives' at the end of a dock.

From the SSI standards:

Open water training dives that are made to meet the
minimum number of dives for certification are to be:
a minimum of 15 minutes, an entry and exit from
the water and the putting on and taking off of scuba
equipment.

 

[philmayer]

There was a guy who came to my LDS last year and wanted to do his AOW, Rescue, DM and OWSI certs ASAP. He had less than 20 dives but he was a member of the local rescue squad, so he must be safety-conscious, right?

He was a disaster in Rescue. When he mentioned within earshot of our LDS owner (a PADI CD) that he was going to go out to the quarry and bounce dive to get his 60 dives in, the CD let him have it. Told the diver that every dive in his logbook must meet the CD's standards, not just PADI's, and that if the logs from any of the dives didn't very closely match those of his buddy (the guy was going to bounce dive solo) that he would be out of the program immediately.

We never saw him again.

 

[Kingpatzer]

I admit to getting to DM with a minimum of dive requirements, though I did not pad my numbers at all.

I was never encouraged to pad numbers at all.

But I also have a shop supporting me where DM is seen as a starting point for instructor development. I have very active, concerned and professional mentors who take it as part of their responsibility to make me a better DM. I am under no illusion that I know all I need to know. And I plan on staying a DM for a fairly long time before going forward.

My reason for getting to my DM was specifically for the mentoring relationships that it opened up for me. Which will not only make me a better instructor when I do get there, but also is making me a better diver much faster than any other option I had available to me.

DM to me is pretty much equivilant of "student teacher." Sure, you have all the book learning, but you don't know anything about being a diving professional (no matter how much diving experience you have, as a professional, you're not diving for yourself, but for others, and in that respect it will always be different). I fully expect that I'll spend far, far more time as a DM than in getting to DM status before I'll think of myself as ready to teach.

I also agree with having a miriad of experiences. From an education point of view, I'm nearly to the point of having completed all of the specialties my agency offers, even if they are not required for my DM status. I also make sure to try everything from open ocean diving to ice diving to muck diving whenever the oportunity presents itself.

Experience isn't the issue. Attitude is. I wish that instructors, or at least CD's, had more leeway to disqualify DM candidates (and even DMs) based on attitude. A DM who thinks they know anything is, in my mind, a danger to themselves and the instructors they are assisting, not to mention the students in the class. We are their to help and learn. The expectation is that we know enough to provide a safety margin for students, and to perform simple tasks in class management for the instructors, but the idea that we "know it all," is not only counter-productive to the class-room environment, it is also completely unrealistic.

One of my shop's CD's, a guy with almost 50 years of dive experience, has noted that if he ever gets to the point where he thinks he knows it all, then it's time for him to stop teaching.

 

[BarryNL]

Not to divert from the topic, but if one is told that pool dives counts, then I guess I would count them. I don't number my pool dives, but I do have to say, the last 6 pool dives I've done, I learned a ton of stuff. I do have to log these dives (although not numbered) to prove credit for my DM course - and signed of course.

To be honest, if you have to start splitting hairs over what constitutes a dive to get your 60 dive quota then you probably don't have enough dives anyway. I had almost 200 open water dives before I felt ready to go for DM. As the PADI DM manual says, a DM should be someone with exemplary dive skills. If you can honestly say "I have exemplary dive skills" then you are ready to go DM, not before.

Of course, I can only say that at the OW level - at the tech level I still suck.

 

[fisherdvm]

Geez, I guess if one were to be a professional DM or instructor, I guess one would like to be a superb diver. I am not even close to being a "good diver". I felt that my DM internship has improved my confidence 10 folds. Why? Not so much the science and technical stuff. But simply being forced to go an intern an OW dive in 50 degree weather, and freezing my butt off.

Then, two weeks ago, I helped out with an AOW dive class while Dive Rite had their display at Gilboa. I just get a kick out of watching some DIR/technical folks practicing their mid water skill, and I wish I could be as trim as they were and as comfortable. There is something to be said about practice, practice, and practice. Then I watched as a group of OW diver and their instructor goes by.... Then the water was murky for the rest of the afternoon.

As I see it, most of the students appreciate any help I provided them; and the instructors appreciate my assistance. It has been a positive step for me this route. Don't know when I'll do GUE fundamental yet.