Whats happening to diving certification? Where have the standards gone?

[boulderjohn]

If it's the first dive and you abort it accordingly, then you take your max depth and dive time and use the tables normally.

I am not arguing against computers, I like them. I am not arguing against a backup computer, that's a fine approach, I am just suggesting that with a good knowledge of decompression theory and some background in both table and computer use, the ways there are to skin the cat increase.

I realize that our positions are really quite similar and we are just quibbling fine points.

As I said before, if you glance at your computer 60 minutes into a dive (multi-level with a max depth of 100 feet) and see that it has stopped working at some point after you looked at it last, even if it was only a minute ago, then you have no way to get back on the tables.

 

[Hoomi]

I am just suggesting that with a good knowledge of decompression theory and some background in both table and computer use, the ways there are to skin the cat increase.

Do you know if any of the training agencies actually conduct classes in decomp theory? I know there are some good books on it available, but what I like about a classroom experience is the ability to ask the instructor questions, and make sure that I'm understanding the material correctly. (Unfortunately, to my knowledge, NAUI does not have any affiliate facilities or instructors in the Tucson area. That I know of, we have the choice of PADI or SSI.)

 

[boulderjohn]

Do you know if any of the training agencies actually conduct classes in decomp theory? I know there are some good books on it available, but what I like about a classroom experience is the ability to ask the instructor questions, and make sure that I'm understanding the material correctly. (Unfortunately, to my knowledge, NAUI does not have any affiliate facilities or instructors in the Tucson area. That I know of, we have the choice of PADI or SSI.)

Any good instructor should be able to answer your questions, at least at the basic levels of decompression theory that most people need. Any instructor should be able to show you the ways that computers and tables differ in their approaches.

I just had a distinctive specialty (Dive Planner) approved by PADI that includes a more thorough explanation of decompression theory than is normally done in recreational classes. I have offered the outline free to other instructors via ScubaBoard, and about 30 have taken me up on it so far. I don't know how many of them have submitted a request to teach it. If you can find one of them in your area, you will learn that and a lot more.

 

[freewillie]

Just got back from diving Turks and Caicos! Was just awsome!! We were staying at the Beaches resort, scuba is included in the activities. I signed my 13 yo daughter up for an intro to scuba class. She loved it so much that she wanted to complete the OW course during our vacation. She spent the rest of the vacation frantically trying to study and complete confined water and OW dives.

While the time was short she completed every course, test, and skill to certify. The time was compressed but she did everything I did for my certification, except hers was done in 3 days. She almost didn't pass because she had a hard time with the PADI dive table. She actually had to come back the next day because she failed the first quiz with the tables, missed both questions. She needed extra tutoring with the dive staff to pass.

I guess the standards are different for different instructors. I'm glad to say my daughters was PADI textbook.

 

[Hatul]

I'm on the side of not requiring the student to be facile with tables. Most become casual divers and don't need tables as a backup to their computer. Better to teach decompression concepts, as some mention.

I don't view recreational OW diving as an extreme sport, maybe it was in the 60's and 70's when it was new and you had to be an athlete to dive, but not now. The big problem for the sport is how to attract more people and keep them diving. Some people get intimidated by dive tables and would make mistakes trying to use them anyway, so let them use their computer, have them understand the concepts and welcome them into the sport.

Adam

 

[Belce]

When I took my open water in the Summer of 2008 I was shown tables and I was shown the eRDP. When I did dives at the start I could safely stay within my NDL and training limits with out any actual planning or thinking beyond "oh look, SPG says go to surface" For a new diver the important thing is to train turn around air pressure, return to surface air pressure. It is not important that they understand that their sub 30 minute dive at 40 feet will not impact their next dive an hour later. Teach the basics of planning, the really important things, we turn when someone gets to this pressure, we begin ascent at this pressure. Later, when you advance your time underwater per dive and your training, learn tables, better.

 

[TSandM]

I listened to my husband go over the PADI RDP with a class tonight . . . he showed how the table works, and then he pulled up a couple of dive profiles from his own log, to show the students how square profile dives fit nicely into the tables, but terrain-based dives don't. I was really happy to see this, because I remember being completely bewildered about terrain-based diving, when I was new. Nothing we did seemed to fit in the tables AT ALL; most of my dives had me so far into deco that I should have been dead. (This happens, when you do a terrain-based dive where you wander downslope to 60, and then wander up.)

I think students should know tables exist. They should understand nitrogen loading and the concept of residual nitrogen time. And then they should learn to work their computers.

 

[knowone]

Lose surfacing as the lost buddy protocol
and you will gain more, and lose far less

 

[Hostage]

I am guessing the same reason I never learned how to use a slide ruler. I finished my pool and classroom sessions a couple weeks ago. I think the DVD went into more detail about tables than the classroom did, then again the videos seemed pretty old. The packet included an "eRDP", looks like a small calculator. We discussed the use of how to use that planner in detail. In a way the paper table is a basic computer, you give a couple inputs to get a calculated output. The only difference is how you enter the information. Human error can be attributed both. The instructors highly recommended that we purchase a dive computer. I plan to get one when I finish my cert.

-Hostage