printable copy of dive tables?

[baggins_69]

Typical? Maybe where you live. But not in the warm waters where most dives are made.

FWIW, I'm primarily a vacation diver and the large majority of my first dives would either be off the tables or put me in such a high loading group the second dive would be very limited.

I too am primarily a vacation diver, both at dedicated dive resorts and a-la carte on whatever dive op I can get out with.

I very very rarely go below 60, and the DMs rarely go below 70. many dives bottom out at 45-50 some even less (St Croix west end, Fla Keys) and many boats have a hard 1 hr limit on dive length.

 

[boulderjohn]

great, so obviously _for_ _you_ tables can't be used to plan a second dive. (are you using 120s or are you just the most efficient SAC ever?)

however don't confuse the way you dive for the way "everyone" dives. _many_ divers dive off tourist oriented boats with a 1 hr limit on bottom time with DMs who rarely go below 60 feet.

for instance, a full week at Coco View in Roatan (23 dives), I rarely went below 60 feet

On those dives, I was indeed using 120s, but if you are diving in Cozumel it is common to do roughly a one hour dive to 80-90 feet on AL 80s. That's what happens on multi-level dives. If you go to the discussion area for Cozumel, one of the most popular dive sites in the world, you will find many people talking about 70-80 minute dives.

In contrast, CocoView is probably the most atypical operation I have ever used. When I dived there, I experienced what you described, and I found it painful. On one dive I frustratingly watched my computer carefully and saw that my SurfGF never got above 19%, after which we laughingly did a safety stop. For those dives, you can safely dive without either a computer or tables.

After my week at CocoView, I was on the Roatan Aggressor liveaboard, and we ended up doing many of the exact same sites, and we had very different experiences. Yes, there is something to see on those sites past 60 feet--you just have to find an operator who will take you to them.

Most of the world does dives beyond the level of OW training dives.

 

[inquis]

however don't confuse the way you dive for the way "everyone" dives. _many_ divers dive off tourist oriented boats with a 1 hr limit on bottom time with DMs who rarely go below 60 feet.

I think you missed the point that _many_ tourist divers do multi-level profiles. The table-based NDL times for repetitive dives will be significantly limited compared to square profiles.

 

[tursiops]

I think you missed the point that _many_ tourist divers do multi-level profiles. The table-based NDL times for repetitive dives will be significantly limited compared to square profiles.

Sorry, I'm confused. Can you explain what you mean again?

 

[inquis]

Sorry, I'm confused. Can you explain what you mean again?

I could be wrong, but my understanding is that @baggins_69 is trying to pitch tables to plan repetitive dives when a computer dies. @boulderjohn's rebuttal included multi-level dives that just happened to be at depths deeper than 60 ft. My quote of baggins69 included his objection that many tourist dives are shallower than 60 ft, but he made no mention of the multi-level aspect. IMO, multi-level is the critical aspect that precludes the use of tables in a realistic backup role.

 

[tursiops]

I could be wrong, but my understanding is that @baggins_69 is trying to pitch tables to plan repetitive dives when a computer dies. @boulderjohn's rebuttal included multi-level dives that just happened to be at depths deeper than 60 ft. My quote of baggins69 included his objection that many tourist dives are shallower than 60 ft, but he made no mention of the multi-level aspect. IMO, multi-level is the critical aspect that precludes the use of tables in a realistic backup role.

OK, I understand better your comment. Thanks.

For fun, many folks may not know of the eRDPML, a version of the PADI tables that allows for 5-foot depth increments, and multi-level dives. It gove results equivalent to the PADI Wheel, but is a small digital calculator rather than an analog "circular slide rule."
Her is a multilevel dive done on the PADI eRDPML.
Assume air, 80 ft for 15 mins; NDL for that depth is 30 mins.
Then dive at 60 ft for 20 mins; could have stayed 25 mins at that depth.
Then dive at 40 ft for 45 mins; could have stayed 53. mins at that depth.
Safety Stop mandatory.
Total BT 80 mins.
Surface Interval 1 hour.
Can then dive to 45 ft for 65 mins; square profile 2nd dive.
Or, can do another multi-level dive...
Dive to 60 ft for 20 mins; could have stayed 30 mins at that depth.
Then dive at 40 ft for 35 mins; could have stayed 42. mins at that depth.
Then dive at 20 ft for 20 mins; could have stayed 22. mins at that depth.
Safety Stop mandatory.
Total BT 75 mins.

The point is the RDP -- a "table" -- exists in version that allow for a multilevel dive followed by another multilevel dive, all within NDL, with reasonable bottom times and depths.
The eRDPML is available in an online version at .::Electronic Recreational Dive Planner - eRDPML::..

A computer is better...but not always essential.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

A lot of people think you can’t dive without a computer.
It depends.
In a situation where the dive is shallow enough and the air supply would be gone long before getting close to NDL you wouldn’t need a computer.
The other time would possibly be for a new diver who is on an extreme budget but just want’s to dive, any dive. Then I would say sure learn tables then go diving until you can afford a computer. The thing about that scenario is that by the time you buy a timing device, an analog depth gauge, and a set of tables you will be in it about the same money as an entry level computer that probably does nitrox, and you can put into gauge mode if you still really want to run tables.
Computers have come way down in price and have gotten much nicer since the old days.

 

[baggins_69]

I think you missed the point that _many_ tourist divers do multi-level profiles. The table-based NDL times for repetitive dives will be significantly limited compared to square profiles.

of course. tables are a worst case representation of your nitrogen situation. I never said you'd be able to do the same second dive as a computer would allow. I said you could safely plan a second dive if you treat the first one as a table dive and follow the tables correctly.

 

[baggins_69]

I could be wrong, but my understanding is that @baggins_69 is trying to pitch tables to plan repetitive dives when a computer dies. @boulderjohn's rebuttal included multi-level dives that just happened to be at depths deeper than 60 ft. My quote of baggins69 included his objection that many tourist dives are shallower than 60 ft, but he made no mention of the multi-level aspect. IMO, multi-level is the critical aspect that precludes the use of tables in a realistic backup role.

jesus. I am not "pitching" anything. I was just looking for a downloadable set of SSI tables to help my wife understand them.

it is absolutely true that you can plan repetitive dives with tables. even if you used a comp for the first one, or do a multi-level dive. just treat it as a table dive when planning your second (i.e. max depth and water time are the only thing you get to count, the multi-level aspect goes away. so if max depth and water time would have blown your NDL (but your computer would let you dive again) tough noogies, follow the table which says you're blown).

is your second dive going to have the same level of freedom as if you were using a computer?? hell no, which is why people use computers more than anything.

there really are no technicalities to consider here. regardless of your actual dive profile, if you won't have a computer for the second dive, run the tables on the first dive using only your max depth and water time. that will tell you if you even can do a second dive using tables very quickly, and if you can, what your limits are.

(btw, this is why I carry redundant dive comps running the same algo)

 

[Lorenzoid]

great, so obviously _for_ _you_ tables can't be used to plan a second dive. (are you using 120s or are you just the most efficient SAC ever?)

however don't confuse the way you dive for the way "everyone" dives. _many_ divers dive off tourist oriented boats with a 1 hr limit on bottom time with DMs who rarely go below 60 feet.

for instance, a full week at Coco View in Roatan (23 dives), I rarely went below 60 feet (because why? there is nothing to see at 80 feet that you aren't going to see at 60 and the light and bottom time go down rapidly as you go deeper. ) many dives I stayed above 50. out of ~24 dives on St Croix, only twice have I gone below 65 feet and many dives (especially on the west end) it is impossible to go below about 35 feet.

so, for many of us, Tables can be used as a "worst case" backup for planning a second dive, because we didn't go anywhere near our NDLs even by dive table standards on our first dive.

When I do lazy vacation type dives like this, I sometimes keep in mind the rule-of-thumb commonly referred to as the Rule of 130. The computer on my wrist, which for most or all of the dive typically reads 99+ minutes of no-deco time left, just validates what I already know.

Nevertheless, if you take advantage of the shore diving at CCV, maybe a night dive, you will be doing more dives per day than the Rule of 130 works for. Sure, you could probably use tables.

Or just use a computer, like everyone. I have a backup computer to deal with "worst case."