What you dislike most....?

[vladimir]

Oh come on, really? Back alley deals? Out of what, a 67 caddy or volkwagen micro bus?

That's right, a Cadillac Eldorado. This dude is bad. And he ain't just fly, he's superfly...yeah. He wants a big score, a million O-rings...yeah.

♬♬
The game he plays, he plays for keeps,
Hustlin' service kits on ghetto streets.
Tryin' to get over.
That what he tryin' to do y'all.
Sellin' those gray market kits,
Gamblin' with the odds of fate,
Tryin' to get over, Tryin' to get over,
Superfly.
♪♫


​

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

What is wrong with the Titanium knife?
I bought one several years ago and I think I washed it once ..... but it looks brand new to me.

Nothing wrong with it if it makes ya smile ... it's your money. But it definitely isn't necessary to spend that kind of money on a cutting device ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[HowardE]

Oh come on, really? Back alley deals? Out of what, a 67 caddy or volkwagen micro bus?

Ask around Jim. For a long time, the industry was in the hands of the instructor. That worked oh so well. Didn't it. I never implied it was like all cloak and dagger, or a grateful dead concert. This is your twist on what I'm saying.

So we should not let competent instructors and individuals service their own gear?

That depends on the gear decisions you've made along the way. If you want to use the top of the line gear with warranties and service policies than yes. If you want to use a 25 year old brut, and fix it yourself, by all means go ahead. Nothing wrong with that. But your comments represent less than 1% of the marketplace. Should a LARGE COMPANY focus on the 1% or the 99% ?? You are a smart businessman. What do you think?

Better to trust to the shop that doesn't bother to even pull back hose protectors or rinse the silt out of a second stage. There are at least 10 people on this board and on a couple other boards I belong to I'd trust to service my regs before a shop I don't know but has "reputable and expertly trained technicians" because the sign says so.

10 People... Wow. Maybe my 1% was too generous. Maybe it's .05%

No thanks. I'm like Bob. Going to HOG/Edge. There are other mfg that don't treat me like I'm stupid as well and I give them my business also. I'd trust my life to my skills before I would to some of the "reputable and expertly trained technicians" that have serrviced gear for members here that has failed the first time out. I've yet to have an issue with any of my regs that I've worked on.

If you want to be technical. Shouldn't we call them a distributor of OEM Products?

 

[rhwestfall]

Summing it all up here, what I hate most is that it is no longer a sport, its a business.....

The "I'm the best shop/agency" is also tiring. Never seen it so bad - maybe its the economy, and they are barely holding on, but you know something, when guys did it as a hobby, it sure was better.... and the limited choices wasn't a bad thing.....

Interesting experience: Comming back to the sport after an 8+ year surface interval, I stopped by a LDS to get to know who/what they were. Basically got the cold shoulder because I wasn't there to buy new gear, hadn't trained through them, and with that, wasn't even able to discuss the trips they do (apparently they reserve those only for their past students, or big spenders). Heck, they wouldn't even talk about the possibility of a refresher session. Okay, then how do you earn my business? You won't.....

Yes, from a business perspective, insurance, inventory, operating costs, etc. have sure taken its toll on survival, and the equipment manufacturers have really made it hard, so it is more than just the LDS....

I'm already tired of all of it.....

 

[The Chairman]

Nothing wrong with it if it makes ya smile ... it's your money. But it definitely isn't necessary to spend that kind of money on a cutting device

Respectfully Bob,

this is just the tip of the "If I don't dive that way or with that gear, it must be crap" mentality. The condescension that we offer our fellow divers for their gear/training/destination choices is appalling to me. We don't seem to appreciate diversity. I say this knowing full well that Bob and I are so much alike in our laid back approach, our gear selection and our attention to the way we dive. We both take great pride in our in water attitude and in our economy of motion.

Now mind you, I think that you and I are down right mild in regards to our attitudes towards other divers, gear, agencies and such, so take this in perspective. In fact, the reason that I am singling you out is that you won't over react to the observation. However, a few people express a far more militant attitude towards those who don't share their attitudes. You can see this in the insistent finger pointing, the need to slam others as well as the cries to "out" others who see the industry differently than they do.

Can't we all get along? Please? Why the need to denigrate others? Why the need to slam, flame or belittle people who don't approach diving in a similar manner? There is no need for a Scuba lynch mob to go around teaching others a lesson. My Zeagle is just as good as your Ares... at least for me! Furthermore, if I wear something OTHER than a BP&Wing, I will not surely die!

Here's an exercise for everyone posting and/or reading this thread. Go back and read your last ten posts. Would you classify them as positive or negative? Be honest. Did you talk about how bad others are, or did you simply share how you dive and why? If you are a professional here on ScubaBoard, this is especially important for you to think about.

 

[HowardE]

Are you kidding me? What other industry won't?

I can walk into any auto parts store and buy damn near any part for my car I want to. I've yet to have anyone behind the counter ask me if I'm a service tech.

I can order parts for just about any electronic device in my house, and nobody I order them from asks me if I'm qualified to work on it.

My brother builds guitars. Nobody's ever asked him if he's a guitar "service tech".

It's my equipment ... if I want to perform my own service, why are manufacturers somehow justified in telling me that I can't? I OWN the damn thing ... it's mine ... not theirs. Now, if they want to tell me that working on my own reg voids the warranty, they've got a justification. But to withold service kits? Uh uh ... who the hell do they think they are ... the government?

I'm getting rid of all my SP regs and buying HOG ... because HOG will sell me parts.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

You have EVERY RIGHT to service your own gear, and do what you see fit with it. It is after all your choice. But purchase your gear knowing that parts may not be available to the general public... yes? Don't act all surprised, and complain that Apeks won't sell you a service kit when you should have known this going into your purchase.

Scuba Regs and Guitars aren't the same. As soon as you're using a guitar for life support. I guarantee the rules for guitar repair would change, and the person who is a hobbyist luthier would think twice about fixing someone else's guitar.

Do not actually do this.. Go to Advance Auto Parts. Buy brake parts... Repair your own brakes... Get into an accident because your brakes fail. See who gets sued.

If a HOG regs fails and someone dies... who gets sued? China?

If an SP reg fails, and someone dies... who gets sued?

FWIW - I do the service and maintenance on my dive helmet. I've been trained, and can buy parts, since I'm an authorized technician.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

That depends on the gear decisions you've made along the way. If you want to use the top of the line gear with warranties and service policies than yes. If you want to use a 25 year old brut, and fix it yourself, by all means go ahead. Nothing wrong with that. But your comments represent less than 1% of the marketplace. Should a LARGE COMPANY focus on the 1% or the 99% ?? You are a smart businessman. What do you think?

Fortunately, there's far more than two choices out there.

If you want to be technical. Shouldn't we call them a distributor of OEM Products?

I don't really care what you call them ... if they can supply me with a high-quality product and provide the services I need at a price I want to pay, then they're the people I should be doing business with.

The reality is that most scuba equipment "manufacturers" today are little more than a distributor of OEM products ... for many of their products, that includes ScubaPro.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[snturner]

Mine probably falls under the "Walmart" approach. I think it is too easy to become certified. Everyone passes the tests even if they can't.

I like too hear someone say they are a certified Dive Master, they have been diving for a year and a half and have 50 dives. I think experience should be a big part of becoming a rescue diver or Dive Master. Again, everyone passes the course regardless.

Just my 2 cents and no I don't want to argue with anyone about it.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Respectfully Bob,

this is just the tip of the "If I don't dive that way or with that gear, it must be crap" mentality. The condescension that we offer our fellow divers for their gear/training/destination choices is appalling to me. We don't seem to appreciate diversity. I say this knowing full well that Bob and I are so much alike in our laid back approach, our gear selection and our attention to the way we dive. We both take great pride in our in water attitude and in our economy of motion.

Now mind you, I think that you and I are down right mild in regards to our attitudes towards other divers, gear, agencies and such, so take this in perspective. In fact, the reason that I am singling you out is that you won't over react to the observation. However, a few people express a far more militant attitude towards those who don't share their attitudes. You can see this in the insistent finger pointing, the need to slam others as well as the cries to "out" others who see the industry differently than they do.

Can't we all get along? Please? Why the need to denigrate others? Why the need to slam, flame or belittle people who don't approach diving in a similar manner? There is no need for a Scuba lynch mob to go around teaching others a lesson. My Zeagle is just as good as your Ares... at least for me! Furthermore, if I wear something OTHER than a BP&Wing, I will not surely die!

Here's an exercise for everyone posting and/or reading this thread. Go back and read your last ten posts. Would you classify them as positive or negative? Be honest. Did you talk about how bad others are, or did you simply share how you dive and why? If you are a professional here on ScubaBoard, this is especially important for you to think about.

I don't really think that most of that discussion stems frome ego so much as remorse. People who are more experienced look back on the choices they made, consider why they made those choices, and earnestly want to help others avoid some of the "mistakes" they made. Unfortunately a lot of time that doesn't translate well on the Internet.

Most people coming into scuba diving are going to make their choices based on what their instructor recommends. When the instructor is tied to a shop, those recommendations will (almost) always be tied to whatever equipment the shop sells. However, who ever stops to consider whether those are the best ... or even the correct ... choices for the consumer? At this point in time, the consumer really doesn't know enough to do anything except trust the integrity of the person who's providing the recommendation.

Ignoring brands for a moment, how many times have you seen people show up for a dive in a poor-fitting BCD or drysuit? Where'd they get it? Who sold it to them? And why didn't the dealer take the time to fit the person for this equipment correctly??

Many, many people put up with less than optimal equipment because that's what the dive shop had for sale, and making the sale was more important than making sure the person got the right gear. Often times they really don't know any better, and sincerely believe they made the best possible choices ... until the day they try some other piece of gear and suddenly realize they've been working way harder than necessary, not because of inadequate skills but because of inappropriate equipment. Then there's a sense of betrayal ... a sense that the person who sold them this gear was someone they trusted, and has just been proven to be untrustable.

Getting back to the posts on ScubaBoard ... I think most of us like to believe that we've made good choices, for rational reasons, and that those reasons would apply equally well to someone else. We do so from the perspective of our experiences, and the environment in which we dive. Therein lies the source of most of the equipment-related train wrecks that occur here ... people tend to be myopic about equipment because they know what works best for them (or think they do) and assume that it will also work best for someone else. To one degree or another, we all do it ... but not so much because of ego as because we sincerely believe we're being helpful.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

You have EVERY RIGHT to service your own gear, and do what you see fit with it. It is after all your choice. But purchase your gear knowing that parts may not be available to the general public... yes? Don't act all surprised, and complain that Apeks won't sell you a service kit when you should have known this going into your purchase.

Until recently I could find SP service kits for my regs.

Do not actually do this.. Go to Advance Auto Parts. Buy brake parts... Repair your own brakes... Get into an accident because your brakes fail. See who gets sued.

In my younger days I'd change my own brakes ... it ain't all that hard, yanno.

If a HOG regs fails and someone dies... who gets sued? China?

If an SP reg fails, and someone dies... who gets sued?

Seriously? I'd say the same laws are going to apply in either case.

FWIW - I do the service and maintenance on my dive helmet. I've been trained, and can buy parts, since I'm an authorized technician.

And if your helmet fails, who gets sued? The helmet manufacturer?

... Bob (Grateful Diver)