What qualifies as a primary light?

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@stuartv, I've been using the same Dive Rite wreck cannister since 2008 just changed the light heads out every couple years. My current battery pack is a 9ah NIMH that I've been using since 2010 (and I still have the fully functional 4.5ah pack from 2008). Even making 3.5 hours dives it powers my Halcyon Focus for multiple days without taking up too much space on my belt. there really is no need for the "latest and greatest" or lights you need to constantly swap batteries. there are plenty of proven and affordable lights out there for a few hundred dollars that will serve folks well for a number of years.

Oh, and @tbone1004, I still prefer that setup to my gen 5 LD35.
 
If you can hire a primary light for the course that is what i would do. LED technology always improving, twice in the last 14 months. You can now get 1500 lumen 30000 lux 4 hour burn time off one 26650 Iithium battery in a handheld.
 
If you can hire a primary light for the course that is what i would do. LED technology always improving, twice in the last 14 months. You can now get 1500 lumen 30000 lux 4 hour burn time off one 26650 Iithium battery in a handheld.

What light can get 1500 lumen 4 hours on 1 26650? I don't think it is possible with today's technology yet, still far from it. That lumen and runtime, you are looking at about 6 26650 with 3 Cree XML2.

Just look at UWLD, probably the represent the best LED lights out there, it need a canister to pull 1500 lumen for 4 hour
 
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when comparing lights, remember that a lot of companies make bogus claims. I posted recently over at CDF about this website where one manufacturer is testing as many lights as they can get their hands on, and posting results: www.WeTestLights.com

Looking at a few big brands in scuba lights you get the idea that max hypothetical lumens is not necessarily the most important metric, nor is burn time alone. For a "primary light" you want to think about sustained performance over a long time.

You can't always depend of companies to tell you everything you want to know about that. A good example, compare claimed and actual output and burn time in the two tested canister lights from Light Monkey and Hollis at the below website. Based on claimed values, the Hollis light sounds way better. But, in the tests, LM performed better overall by having a longer burn, but also is able to sustain a higher output than what the Hollis light eventually drops to. Such cool site. I hope they get a lot more diving lights on there. www.WeTestLights.com
 
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At what level of cave training could you realistically start doing 2 hour dives?

If you're doing 2 x 1 hour dives per day, what's wrong with having a 90-minute burn time and changing batteries between dives?

If you're not going to do 2 hour dives anytime in the immediate future, why buy a light now that can handle that, for hundreds of dollars, when the tech (light and battery) is changing pretty fast and what you need could be a lot cheaper by the time you need it? Not to mention how batteries degrade over time, so buying a big, expensive battery pack that you won't actually need for a year or two means it won't even be what you paid for by the time you actually need it. And when a light that can give good output, beam angle, and adequate burn time (for a 1-hour dive - or even a fair bit longer, really, even with a 50% reserve) can be had now for well under $100, including multiple batteries?

At the intro level divers will likely do 2-3 dives a day. Dive times will range from 30-60 minutes, depending on location, SAC rate, etc. A 1 hour light will not be long enough in the event something delays exit. A 90 minute light may be OK, but sometimes people will do multiple dives without leaving the water, how are you going to change batteries then?

Here's an example:

Dive 1 and 2 - Peacock Springs.

Dive 1: Up the Olson Line towards Olson. Depth averages about 60'. Starting PSI - 3600, 1/6ths is 600 psi. You should be back on the surface with no less than 2400 PSI. It's not uncommon for an intro diver to get a 30-45 minute dive on this.

Surface interval in the basin, discussing the dive, etc. You have 2400 PSI in a set of doubles. Is it enough to do another dive? Yes, of course it is. Do you need to get out of the water to do this? No.

Dive 2: Up the peanut line. Maximum depth is 60', but for a big portion of it you're at 30' (at one point you're at 18'!). Starting PSI - 2400, 1/6ths is 400 psi. Average dive time is ~40 minutes -- this is very DOABLE.

Dive 1 time - 40 minutes. Dive 2 time - 40 minutes. Your 90 minute light is going to be at the limit assuming everything is going well.

As to the question of "why buy now?" -- my question is "why buy twice?"

While light technology does change, the high end lights aren't changing very rapidly and the price is pretty constant if you look over the past few years. A light you buy today will be useful years from now. I have a four year old Dive Rite light that is perfectly suitable for doing full cave dives today. Is it as bright as an LX25's, no, but is it suitable? Yes. And guess what, it's perfectly suitable for doing intro to cave dives too! I do not have the disposable income to throw away on mediocre crap that I will want to throw away later.

Personally, I would rather make an investment in a good light once rather than buying a mediocre light now and then buying a good light later. But that's me.

See what I did there? I used the word "investment" -- a good light is an investment in you and your diving.

2 hour dives in caves aren't uncommon once you hit the full cave level. It may be a pair of one hour dives back to back, but you don't really have the ability to swap batteries. I have no problem for those using a pair of the small backup lights and just using one on the way in and one on the way out, but much prefer a canister in that situation for ease of use. My biggest issue with the big handhelds like the LX20 from Dive Rite are just how damn big and heavy they are. It is truly exhausting using them in comparison the relatively tiny light heads on the LED canisters.

I have yet to teach a full cave class that we didn't do at least one 90 minute dive. I recently sat in on a cave CCR class where every day there was a 3 to 4 hour dive. I have a full cave class coming up in a couple of weeks that I fully expect we will get ten hours of bottom time in the cave over four days. This is just the way it is.

As for planning to swap lights during a dive, I have a huge problem with planning for a light failure as part of the operating procedure.

Let me ask, why would you never turn your light off once it's turned on? There's a reason for this, it's not as important as it was with Halogen bulbs, but there's still a reason for this.
 
So I've decided to take cavern/intro and there are gear requirements that include a primary and a couple of backup lights. What makes a primary light? I have a few cheap Chinese dive lights that if you believe the packaging put out 6k lumens and 10k lumens for around 120mins and longer on lower settings. Since I can't see myself staying 2 hours on sixths do these qualify? I feel like if I need more burn time I can either double up on the lights or upgrade and use these as nice backups. Any input is appreciated however I'm not entirely sold on a canister light just yet I can see the advantages but I just don't need that much fire power yet, or do I?

Really and truly the ONLY way to know what's best for you is to try a few different lights, and I can't imagine an instructor not having a primary light available for rent (or loan) to cavern/intro students. Definitely try some lights before you spend any serious money.

You can't count on a manufacturer's claim of lumens to get a clear idea of what the light will really look like in the water. And since you're going to great expense and effort to dive in caves primarily because of the scenery, it's really important to have a light that provides the kind of light (color, spread, intensity, etc) that works for you. The stats do not tell the whole story at all.

You will need the extended burn time because you'll be doing a couple of short dives throughout the day in your class and as an intro diver, and you really do not want to have to charge the light in between. These days there are small canisters that still provide 3-4 hours of burn time with plenty of light. You can usually get a bigger canister later for more burn time if you need it.

After lots of research and borrowing a few lights, I went with a used light monkey 21W HID. The price was less than half of a new UWLD LED light of similar output, and I really like the character of HID light. But, it is bulkier and the bulbs are fragile. Mine came with a new battery installed by LM and a good warranty.

Personally I would stick with LM, salvo, or UWLD if you can, simply because the service of those companies is fantastic.(salvo is basically an ancestor of LM and they service them) Since UWLD is a newer company, it might be tougher to find one used, although I did see something on cavediver.net recently.

One other thing about the goodman handle; after using mine for a few days I ended up taking it off and I prefer to just hold the light head. Maybe I'll find a better design soft handle, but I doubt it.
 
What light can get 1500 lumen 4 hours on 1 26650? I don't think it is possible with today's technology yet, still far from it. That lumen and runtime, you are looking at about 6 26650 with 3 Cree XML2.

Just look at UWLD, probably the represent the best LED lights out there, it need a canister to pull 1500 lumen for 4 hour

Tillytec on a 26650 LiCoMn with a 10 deg beam and I think either 5500 or 6000 K. Hope this helps.

LED 1500-30000 Lux- burn time around 4 hours
LED 1500-45000-Lux burn time around 2 hours
LED 1500-60000-Lux burn time around 1,5 hours
 
Tillytec on a 26650 LiCoMn with a 10 deg beam and I think either 5500 or 6000 K. Hope this helps.

LED 1500-30000 Lux- burn time around 4 hours
LED 1500-45000-Lux burn time around 2 hours
LED 1500-60000-Lux burn time around 1,5 hours

The TillyTec website seems to show 180 min (3 hours) burn time for any of their 1500 lumen LED units, when using a single 26650.

Maxi uni

Only the 900 lumen LED offers 4 hours on a single 26650.
 
The TillyTec website seems to show 180 min (3 hours) burn time for any of their 1500 lumen LED units, when using a single 26650.

Maxi uni

Only the 900 lumen LED offers 4 hours on a single 26650.

new range, not up on the website yet. That's the point. Technology changes fast and the danger with expensive can lights is that you get locked into an expensive unit you can't upgrade without having to send the head back to the manufacturer and then what is the effect on battery consumption etc. It's not like upgrading a mac. It's a minefield! Hence my advice to the OP to wait until he has done the course, try some different lights, speak to people who do the kind of diving he wants to do. However keen he is to buy NOW which I understand...
 
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4 hours at 900 lumen on a single 26650 is beyond our current technology. Do not believe those claims. Let's give 26650's a bit of an improvement and say they are 6ah, which is well beyond what they are, but it makes for easier math. Cree XML's have a max efficiency of 170 lumen/watt, which they don't get, but it's a number. 3.7v*6ah=22wh for the battery. 4 hours assuming 100% efficiency and full use of the battery is 5.5w draw. 5.5 watts at 170 lumen=935. That is before any efficiency adjustment *at best 95%*, that is assuming a battery that has a much larger capacity than it really does *they are usually at 5200-5300mah, and assuming they are getting the best efficiency out of that emitter, which they aren't. This light is beyond both the LED technology and the battery technology we have today, don't buy into marketing claims.
 
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http://cavediveflorida.com/Rum_House.htm

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