What is your opinion on Force Fins?

[themagni]

I've been using FF for years, and I've used a few other pairs (borrowed gear, rentals, classes, etc). They make for a nice, easy swim. I've had one cramp, and that was after a very difficult dive (carving pumpkins of all things) when the conditions deteriorated very quickly. I came withing inches of thumbing that one.

I dive in BC, in the open ocean, in conditions varying from "awesome" to "crapola". They work well even in the current. I've had zero problems with navigation, drag racing, maneuvering, etc. With the bungee cord straps, they're really easy to don and doff. That's important if you're doing a shore dive with 100 pounds of gear - you don't want to be dancing around trying to get your fins on.

I worked with an oft-times buddy and he had broken the FF straps. The fins stay on even without the straps, which is kind of impressive. It's good, too, because they sink.

I got mine from eBay for about $150. If you go that route, make sure you get the scuba type instead of the snorkeling type. They sell for about $250 in town. (I get my critical gear - wing, regs, etc from my FLDS.)

Of course, as other people have stated, whatever fins you get are up to you. If you'd prefer FF, Jets, Bios, or two licence plates strapped to your feet, get whatever you want. There's got to be someone in town you could borrow a pair from for a dive.

If I had to replace them, I'd get another pair without hesitation.

 

[richerso]

"Your request (censored) if disclosed, is likely to cause substantial harm to Force Fins competitors and were determined exempt from disclosure under title 5, United States Code, Section 552(b)(4)."

Direct quote from correspondence from Department of Naval Research in response to Freedom of Information Request surrounding study. No agreements were made with us before testing. I doubt they were with any other company.

Susanne,
I am going to have to agree with OldNSalty on this one.
The USN simply told you that your FOIA request is exempt from disclosure under the rules of the FOIA for competitive reasons.

This is not the same thing as "the report was classified". The USN and other DoD interests can only classify something if it is deemed that disclosure of such information would cause serious, substantial or grave damage to the national security of the United States or allied nations. Please note that is not the same thing as competition sensitive.

I know I am nit picking a minute point here; but "classified" means something and it's not about protecting the manufacturers of fins. Sorry.

 

[Susanne]

Susanne,
I am going to have to agree with OldNSalty on this one.
The USN simply told you that your FOIA request is exempt from disclosure under the rules of the FOIA for competitive reasons.

This is not the same thing as "the report was classified". The USN and other DoD interests can only classify something if it is deemed that disclosure of such information would cause serious, substantial or grave damage to the national security of the United States or allied nations. Please note that is not the same thing as competition sensitive.

I know I am nit picking a minute point here; but "classified" means something and it's not about protecting the manufacturers of fins. Sorry.

No need to apologize. I am drawing off information that is in addition to the letter, so your "nit pick" is understood and well taken. For more on this take a look at Chris Kostman's article for Aquacorps that is reprinted on his site. adventurecorps

 

[meesier42]

eh, the "classified" was probably my fault. I write classified info all the time and should know better, but, yes the right thing to say is excempt from disclosure under FIOA and much of the information has been "censored" not classified.

sorry Susanne

 

[Susanne]

eh, the "classified" was probably my fault. I write classified info all the time and should know better, but, yes the right thing to say is excempt from disclosure under FIOA and much of the information has been "censored" not classified.

sorry Susanne

No fault here. The JAG Officer told me that the study was to supposed to be classified because they didn't want "the enemy to find out that short floppy fins were better than long stiff fins." Like I said, I'm just quoting.

 

[DiverRush]

Compared to stiff long blade fins that kill my ankles, my force fins rock!

I also leave my friends with turtles in the dust...I look back and I have to wait for them to catch up

 

[DarthWader]

Can anyone spell "troll"?

I must be a troll as well as I was about to post a similar question before I did a search.

I'm a gadget geek I must admit, and I wanted a a pair after I finished my OW, but after reading all the Force fin info I could, I had to wonder: If the force fin is THE perfect fin, then why all the mods? I see that there's even a split version now. so. . . I too must ask, are Force Fins really all that they're made out to be?

Now back to reading the rest of these posts to find my answer.

PS:
Just finished reading the rest of this thread. I'm still curious and I must again ask, Without intent or agenda, if Force Fins are the perfect design, why, then, are there so many variations? especially the split version and all the versions with. . . for lack of a better word, spikes?

 

[Bob Evans]

DARTHWADER, First my split fin was in the market place one year before the others. It's a long story what happened with that design. I started out in 1971 prototyping fins and in 1981 came out with the original Force Fin design. Over the years I created 33 models, why, because their is a market for each. Today 12 pairs of Rip Force are being made for some search and rescue folks in Canada who have a need for a short flat blade fin. The Beaver Force is a fin I sell only to a Military team in the UK. Several dozen float tube fins are be made today for Float tubers, and so on. Let me kick back into shipping today's orders I will answer more later from home tonight.Best Bob Evans

 

[meesier42]

so many models, how many different opinions are there out there. there is a fin out there to suit each. When it comes down to it there are only 3 main fins, The Original, The Foil, and The Slim Fin.

The Foil was the first split fin on the market, and although all others were made to look like the Foil, they do not work anything like the Foil Force as most splits work in spite of the split not because of it. Bob can give the details of its evolution, so I will not bother.

The Original- this is the main fin of the ForceFin line, it comes in 3 materials, The basic Original, the stiffer Pro, and the high performance TanDelta. Really the Float tube and the Adjustable are versions of this fin as well, but the Float tube has a massive foot pocket to fit a wader boot and the adjustable has the normal sized adjustable foot pocket. But really they are the same fin, with refinements that people have asked for or have stiffness to match individuals.

Then there is the Slim Fin, basic swim training fin, its a short flexible fin for pool/swim training. of course this also has its adjustable version

The others, Extra Force, Excellerating, Military, Beaver, Rip, and Multi are specialist fins that again Bob made due to individuals asking for them. Each one does something that was designed into it. Even though each is a little different, they have a couple of things in common.
1) the foot pocket- designed for optimum power transfer from the most powerful muscles in your body, keeping air consumption low, fatigue low, and cramping doesn't exist.
2) material- the material used by ForceFins is unlike anything anyone else uses, it is this material that allows the snap where other materials just give.

so, to answer your question, "why so many?"
perhaps you should ask why no one else makes this many, no one can make a single fin that will fit the desires of every single diver in the world, but with some selection, one company can make fins that will fill the needs of every diver.

 

[Blair Mott]

Darthwader,
Thanks for the post and your name is great name. - Yes I am a Star Wars Freak-
I remember Don Santee, Head of Expeditions for Ocean Futures Society once tell me what he liked about Force Fins and he said, "you can't have one fin for all diving situations"

There so many different models for many so many different water activities and tasks. Now having five or so different models does not make finical sense, but with over 33 models and still more to come feel free to give me a call at 1.800.346.7946 and we can talk about your physical shape, water activity and budget and I will gladly present you with your best options.

You mention the Foil Force ( our Split Fin). It was the Force Fin model that received an award in 1999 from DEMA, so it really is not new to us. It is the Split Fin. It has strong cupped Foils not a flat paddle with a cut down the middle.

My favorite model is the Excellerating Force Fin for all my work in film production, drysuit and rebreather diving, but I use the Flying Force Fin when changing Props on the oil crew/supply boats in the area and wreck diving and I use the Adjustable Dive blade when performing light commercial dive work in my local area. If I had to choose one well as I mentioned it would be the Excellerating Force Fin. Are Force Fins a good desgin? Most people I know use them for two reasons comfort and efficiency.

Comfort because Force Fin has taken out the foot out of the equation with its open foot pocket. Have you ever heard of Gray's Paradox? Well the 72 year old mystery of how Dolphins can swim so fast has had a major break through! The have solved it and in the January 2009 Issue of Diver Magazine they have a great article about the research and what the scientist have done. It a nut shell they found out that dolphins can swim so fast because they produce so much force by snapping their tails like a whip. Force Fins work becuase of the high grade materials they use in making their fins creates the greatest snap or rebound possible.

Ever try to see how high you can snap a fin off your knee? That will tell you how much rebound or snap your fins have.

So I kick down in my Force Fins and at the end of the kick cycle the fins snap and I get addtional power just from the snap/rebound. I always tell people "SNAP INTO THE ZONE" and that is why I dive Force Fins. One added benfit is the material last forever. Send me a PM or call me at 1.800.346. 7946 as it would be great to talk to you about your Force Fin options if you are interested!