What is your opinion on Force Fins?

[covediver]

Maybe we can start moving these "do Force Fins work" threads to Whine and Cheeze as bagging on or sanctifying this fin seems to be a weekly, sometimes daily, event. I have seen few products engender this kind of support or animous. I guess the debate on the fin has replaced the old Scubapro versus USD as the endless topic. Kind of like what religion really delivers salvation.

It is either the greatest fin ever made or the biggest scam perpertrated on the diving community.

I tried the fin more than 20 years ago and did not find it condusive to the way I swim. Back then, they had a little place near Anacapa Dive Shop off the beach in SB. This product has been around for that long and they are still in business. Not a bad business plan if you ask me. Yet, people I know really like the fin because it works for them. Plain and simple. Some people are turned off by the price, but price is just one factor in gear purchases. I wasn't too enamored by the styling, but that is a matter of personal preference. People whose opinion I respect and with whom I would be honored to dive really like this fin.

Find a pair and try them out. If you like them, buy them. If you don't, buy something else. If you use popular opinion to gage what gear you should buy, you will soon be broke and disappointed and have a bunch of stuff for the "for sale" thread.

 

[scubadiver888]

Can anyone spell "troll"?

I honestly didn't know if I can believe the hype I've read about these fins. Everything I have found is on the manufacturer's web site or not attributed to anyone. I have never seen anyone using these things but then my experience is limited. No one in my area stocks these or has any opinion (well one guy tried to convince me I should buy what he stocks).

Basically, I cannot see anything wrong with the logic of the article but my gut tells me I'm missing something.

ADDED: I just read the rest of the messages and see why you think I'm a troll. I didn't realize there was a Force Fin forum. I'm not a troll, just still trying to find my way around this board. :embarass:

From what meesier42 posted, I'm now seriously considering these things. Previously, the claims on the website sound too good to be true.

 

[scubadiver888]

I am glad that you put the DISCLAIMER "IMO" on that.
1) a "bicycle" kick is the kick that you can't use with ForceFins, as flexing the fin on the downstroke is how you activate them, which a bicycle does not have
2) the best kick for ForceFins is a true swimmers straight legged kick, not the bent knee kick that most conventional fins use.

After diving Forcefins for over 10 years and close to 1000 or more dives, I have found they are simply the best fin on the market and their limitations in Recreational Scuba diving are few and far inbetween. They can out run the fastest Apollo or Atomic Splits, they have better control than the Quattros, they keep working even if you break the heel strap, and you'll likely NEVER cramp with them on.

I have lent mine to over a dozen divers over the years, and without exception, if they used them for more than 4 dives, each of them purchased a pair for themselves and one guy is yet to return them some 5 years later. I have only had 1 diver use them and not buy them, and he used them for about 5 minutes and said he couldn't feel them, I tried to convince him that not "feeling" them is a good thing, but... oh well.

As far as my opinions, just swap over to the FF thread and do some reading, I have reviewed almost every fin in the Prime Line and posted my results and comments. Check out
http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/force-fin/230415-picking-right-fin.html
http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/force-fin/221715-inside-out.html

As for efficiency, the ForceFin original and the Pro was tested back in 1993 in a US Navy Sponsored test, which was later classified because "is likely to cause substantial harm to Force Fins competitors". Some of censored results, comparing only to the closest competitors is on the FF website. Plain and simple, they were the most physiologically efficient fins they had ever tested, which is why the following people use them
John Chatterton
Jean-Michel Cousteau and his entire Ocean Adventures Dive Team
Jonathan Bird
Hal Watts
the majority of Navy Seals
Japan's, South Korea's, and many other countries divers and special ops forces.
commercial divers and hundreds (of thousands) of regular divers the world over

Thank you for this post. I didn't even know there was a forum for Force Fins. This board is massive and I'm still trying to figure out what sections to read and how to find things. :embarass:

 

[meesier42]

If you like the fin, and you don't mind the price, that is all that matters.

And if you don't like them....

ForceFin will give you 30days from purchase and buy them back from you. They just ask that you give them a serious test. He gets really mad when people send them back to him for a refund and they have never been out of the box, or at least not for more than 1 dive.

 

[digital_steve]

And if you don't like them....

ForceFin will give you 30days from purchase and buy them back from you. They just ask that you give them a serious test. He gets really mad when people send them back to him for a refund and they have never been out of the box, or at least not for more than 1 dive.

They should do a free trial as opposed to money back
I'd love to try a pair, but i wouldn't pay in advance

 

[meesier42]

I am pretty sure that nobody does a free trial, most companies don't even have a money back gaurantee, only refunding your money if they fail due to manufacturiung flaws.
Occansionally, FF has done a trials day, but you have to come to them, similar to DUI's dog day demos, but not as regular.

 

[Fishbird]

You have to use Force Fins for a few dives before you get the feel for them and realize that even though they feel "wimpy" because they are easier to kick than other fins, you are still going just as fast as everyone else (maybe faster!) They really are more efficient. No way would I go back to a traditional "board" fin. Given them a try, and not just for a few minutes in the pool. You may just become a convert!!

Bob Evans is a genius!!

Jonathan

 

[OldNSalty]

As for efficiency, the ForceFin original and the Pro was tested back in 1993 in a US Navy Sponsored test, which was later classified because "is likely to cause substantial harm to Force Fins competitors".

Maybe, but as someone who works with the government and holds a security clearance I don’t think we have ever ‘classified’ anything because of the free market (well, with the exception of that water to fuel converter that we got from the Roswell crash-haha)
Normally, to have something classified at any level, you have to show that by not doing so the release of the information ‘could result in grave and disastrous harm to the interest of United States, her allies or national security’-or something like that, I don’t recall the verbiage verbatim.
Maybe there was a deal reached before the test that all parties would have to agree before it would be released but even that sounds odd. The Navy can certainly afford to buy one of every fin on the market and conduct whatever test they need to.
I am just suggesting that you choice your words more carefully as the claim sounds like a marketing ploy to me. As for the fins they may very well be the greatest synthetic fins on earth-I have no idea but will try them if I ever get a chance.

 

[Susanne]

Maybe, but as someone who works with the government and holds a security clearance I don’t think we have ever ‘classified’ anything because of the free market (well, with the exception of that water to fuel converter that we got from the Roswell crash-haha)
Normally, to have something classified at any level, you have to show that by not doing so the release of the information ‘could result in grave and disastrous harm to the interest of United States, her allies or national security’-or something like that, I don’t recall the verbiage verbatim.
Maybe there was a deal reached before the test that all parties would have to agree before it would be released but even that sounds odd. The Navy can certainly afford to buy one of every fin on the market and conduct whatever test they need to.
I am just suggesting that you choice your words more carefully as the claim sounds like a marketing ploy to me. As for the fins they may very well be the greatest synthetic fins on earth-I have no idea but will try them if I ever get a chance.

"Your request (censored) if disclosed, is likely to cause substantial harm to Force Fins competitors and were determined exempt from disclosure under title 5, United States Code, Section 552(b)(4)."

Direct quote from correspondence from Department of Naval Research in response to Freedom of Information Request surrounding study. No agreements were made with us before testing. I doubt they were with any other company.

 

[diver 85]

I did, but it really wasn't necessary. This type of thread is all about opinions.

Sort of like the question(from the Little Rascals) who's better Flash Gordon or Tarzan???........To the OP, you are the only one that can determine the advantage(s) of them...I would try a pair out in your type of diving conditions----then you can tell us how good they are or are not..........


personally I would not be caught dead in them----UGLY comes to mind....