what is your LDC and why (phoenix az)

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shark.byte.usa:
I'd consider it (with help) if the interest was there. BUT first I think it would be prudent to see if Dave & Steve would want to expand (& organize) AZScuba. As he said they already do 2 to 3 things I mentioned. We could handle the monthly lake dives and semi-local trips, Steve doesn't like those anyway, they could continue with their happy-hour/socials, which I don't like, and the occassional tropical trips. It's worth discussing IMO before gauging interest in a brand new dive club.

-Garrett
As much as I sound like I'm speaking for AZScuba in my previous post(I tried not to) I'd like to mention that any expansion/organization of the club would have to be with David's blessing as he founded and runs it so I'd defer any decision to him. Although I am involved in the day to day stuff it's really not my call.

Certainly worth discussing though. It fits with plans we've discussed for the future of AZScuba.

I've PM'd David to review and comment on this thread. We also might consider if we've really hijacked the OP's thread now and start one on AZScuba, if someone's not a member, I don't think they should respond.

Somehow in my role as a Local Guide, I should also be involved in this. But frankly I'm still trying to figure out what that is, at least outside of AZScuba.
 
sjspeck:
We also might consider if we've really hijacked the OP's thread now and start one on AZScuba, if someone's not a member, I don't think they should respond.

I don't think we've hijacked the thread. He did state this is the place to talk about your LDC. Isn't that what we're doing? :wink:

I agree, though, that it should be a members only discussion. Maybe Dave can start a thread in that forum about the status of the club and what the future holds for us?
 
It seems I am supposed to find these posts and read them once in a while. Forgive me if I go off on tangents and ramble on a bit here.

I started AZSCUBA approx. four years ago when I was looking for a dive club without a sales pitch and could not find one in Phoenix.

We do lack some structure, and I openly admit that I have not put as much effort into the club as I could. This isn’t a paid position; the effort I put forth is based on my enthusiasm at any given time. We do not charge anything for the club, and this may also be why some people do not feel they are “members.” The description of the club asks for member involvement- for the members to shape the club into be what they want it to be. I didn’t want to shape the group rigidly. I wanted it to be able to evolve into whatever the membership desires.

I understand the concept of a drinking club that dives, and I don’t feel that is what we are. Our meetings are informal and are at bars, but I don’t see it as a drunkfest. I rarely have more than two drinks. Some people who don’t drink don’t like bars. I am not too fond of BBQ’s. (Go figure.) Any one can announce a BBQ. One was announced at a meeting for July 4th, if I remember correctly. (Yep, it didn’t get posted to the whole list because the member felt awkward inviting people they did not meet to their home.)

There is no comfortable media for all to organize a dive club. Some people like the monthly happy hour meetings. Some would like a BBQ setting. Others prefer it to be in an online forum such as this. Still others prefer the email list format. We have tried most of these options and each has attracted different people to become more active. We seem to lose people and gain others with each format change.

We did promote a lake dive to meet up with Rob over last summer. It was announced on the Yahoo list and here. At least 5 AZSCUBA members showed, including me. This was not a huge turnout. Lake diving does not do it for me, so expecting me to organize and attend them is expecting a lot. Again, I don’t need to be involved in every trip dive. The members can announce and organize their own trips. If Rob were to announce them in our forum or yahoo list, they could be considered AZSCUBA dives just because the membership was invited.

Incidentally, this is where the liability issue comes into play. If a dive is mentioned on AZSCUBA and a diver is recruited there, it could in theory make the forum liable in a court of law if it is considered a “club”. An AZSCUBA representative won’t be there to have a liability form signed so where would that leave AZSCUBA if something went wrong resulting in a lawsuit?

Getting group involvement in trips is actually more difficult than I originally expected. The first trips that were announced to the group were San Carlos dives that were Raetheon R-team dives. The prices were great and lots of notice was given. I went on them without any one from AZSCUBA and I had a great time. I posted dive reports and thought interest would be aroused for their future trips. It didn’t happen.

I saw a lot of trip reports about trips that the group was not invited on. It seemed that people wanted to do their own thing without inviting the group.

Originally I didn't want to involve the local dive shops. (LDS)
I now am willing to announce their trips as long as they don't go overboard trying to use us as a free advertisement media.

As Steve mentioned, we now have http//www.azscuba.org
Honestly, we are not sure what we are going to do with it yet.

I am unhappy that scubaboard will not allow me to directly email the group’s membership without a huge hassle taking hours of work for each email and expecting each member to log in to scubaboard to read their message.

The yahoo group was a huge benefit in that regard, but it didn’t have the feature we have here- discussions about topics I individual threads that didn’t result in a barrage of useless emails.

I’m also not happy that scubaboard is so vast and that people without adequate computer skills cannot find this folder or this thread. (More than half of the yahoo members cannot.) It took too much effort for me to find this thread to post in it to make me happy.

Both formats are not what I envisioned for AZSCUBA.

I’d like a happy medium. I am not enthusiastic of the work it will take and will not take on that burden alone or expect Steve or anyone else to do it unless they really wanted to. It may take an expense to maintain the site and we may decide to charge a paltry sum for membership, like a $5.00 annual fee. Paypal could make that easier, and it may make the members who don’t think they are members feel like they are. It may make members feel like they would want to get more involved in shaping the club as well.

I don’t know if this answered any questions or just made me look like I am less involved in AZSCUBA than you would expect.
 
So, in other words, what you're saying is this is our club and we can do with it as we please (within limits, of course). We can arrange and announce trips and meetings. If we want to announce them in the forum, we can. If we want to keep it small and announce it in person, we can. We can basically run our own little subdivisions of the club and you're cool with that. Am I interpreting what you posted correctly?
 
sjspeck:
I'm a little confused by the you/your vs. we aspect of your last post. I'd hope that you consider yourself to be a member in AZScuba to the extent that you wish to be.

Since I don't want to drag the kids and fight through traffic to the East Side (generally) for Happy Hour, when I don't drink, the kids got homeowork or Soccer or whatever, and I'm not informed of the goings on via the forum, I suppose I get what I expect out of it. If that's my only option to be an "active" member, then I guess I'm not.

I didn't mean for this to become or infer a me vs AZScuba thing. I simply stated what I'd like to see from a local Club, others have expressed interest in the type of club I outlined as well. I said No one fit the bill (yet). You brought up AZScuba.

I have no expectations from AZScuba that's the thing and if what your doing now fills your charter and your happy with it, as you seem to be, great. I have no problem or ill-will towards AZScuba, it doesn't fit the charter of a club I'd be active with as it stands now, but that's me.

Me...I'd rather socialize during diving activities wherever that may be, I dive locally because I can't run off every weekend, I don't dive any other lakes than Pleasant, why? cuz if I'm going to be in a car for a couple hours and I have that kindof time, I may as well be in Socal. I like California diving, I like the environment, it's close and can be cheap (and I'm a native). I like Tropical diving, I try to plan a big trip every other year, I'm working on 2007 now (Hawaii, Coz, Fiji??? I just can't decide). I'd like to be apart of a club that fits me, right now I don't because one doesn't exist. That all I was saying.

-Garrett
 
I'm not sure that any one club can fulfill the expectations of all it's members. Since everyone in the group has different responsibilities, family involvement, some are looking for a Singles club, some a local hardcore dive-only club, some a regional or international dive travel club etc. I think part of the problem is the lack of different dive opportunities in Arizona. There's less interest once the aspect of travel on multiple days - even just to SoCal or San Carlos - is part of the plan.

As David mentioned, we have the meetings in bars because we're adults and there's not a lot of other night time meeting spaces - especially since the membership voted last year to have the meetings on Thursday night. Although actually half of our meetings are in restaurants with attached bars. I suppose we could meet at parks or something occasionally also but that would mean changing the standard meeting time - you should see all the e-mails when that happens.

I didn't mean for my remarks to come off as you vs. AZScuba. I don't feel that way at all. If it works for you fine, anyone is welcome to participate at whatever level they choose.
 
This was our Yahoo group description. It has since been replaced with a redirection to scubaboard, as the Yahoo group is nearly abandoned.

http://web.archive.org/web/20041130204608/http://groups.yahoo.com/group/azscuba/

MEMBERSHIP IS BY APPROVAL! SPAM WILL NOT BE TOLERATED *Please read entire description prior to attempting to join. This is the email list, photo archive and event calendar of the AZSCUBA group. Our Forums are here: http://www.scubaboard.com/f292.html
We are an informal group of SCUBA divers who are based in the Phoenix, Arizona AZ area. The purpose of this group is to meet other divers and to plan and execute dives together. We are not a club; there is no membership fee.
If you are interested in organizing a dive trip or are looking to go diving with a local group, you have found us. This is a member driven group; the members plan dive trips and openly invite the group members to attend. Come on a trip with us, or announce a trip of your own! Our LINKS page has helpful trip planning resources as well.
Dive shops/charters may post their trips ONCE A MONTH. We shall not be affiliated with any specific dive shop, instructor, boat, product, etc.
We gather informally on the second Thursday of each month between 5:45PM - 8:30PM. Locations are announced in advance via this email list, and are posted at ScubaBoard in the Arizona Scuba section. Email addresses are shared with the group. If you select to receive "No Email", it will be changed to "Special Notices".
(This group is merely an informal venue to bring divers together. Insurance is the responsibility of the individuals in the group. Participating in a trip announced via this group does not express or imply that any individual present on the trip is a certified and/or insured divemaster or instructor. All individual members assume all personal liability for any activities they partake in. This group and all members assume NO responsibility whatsoever for any actions of other members of the group, or those outside the group.)

_______________________________________________________________________

I was not trying to respond in an "us against them" fashion, and hope it did not come out that way. I feel the AZSCUBA group is under utilized by its members and wanted to explain what it was meant to be.

Another pet peeve of scubaboard- I'm not subscribed to this thread. I'm sure it is a setting somewhere, but I see why so many members express frustration. Aren't I a great local guide who can't figure this basic stuff out themself? (Mostly because I'm at work and this isn't "productive" to my employer)
 
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