What is the real difference in certification levels

[DENLASCUBA]

This is mostly dependent on the instructor themselves and I believe it even stems from their instructors they had while undertaking their DM and Instructor courses. If this current instructor during their DM course did not have a very good instructor they will probably most likely take on the attitude and professionalism that they were taught under, this instructor may also have just cared that their DM student met the minimum requirements to pass the DM course and they can have another DM cert to add to their record.

Then you have the Course Directors along with Staff Instructors whose job it is to mold these new upcoming instructors even more to be what they feel is the best in their opinion and previous students. Then again in actuality what the CD believes are good instructors maybe average instructors who could use a bit more refinement or more time spent understanding things they just barely understand. This can even be a long line of bad instructors if you looked back far enough. Even a current instructor who as a DM or IDC candidate did not have a good instructor can still come out as a great instructor as long as they have the proper attitude and willing to watch, listen, and ask to better improve themselves.

Now the new O/W diver also has a responsibility to become a better diver by looking for ways to improve their buoyancy, air consumption, and understanding how to react in emergency situations (out of air, equipment failure, ect.). This can even stem from when the diver first decides to take an O/W course. I see alot of new divers that only research the cost of the course and not the shop or instructors providing the course (this is for any course also), in turn they have the potential of being taught by a bad/or not so great instructor which also falls upon them for not trying to do their research. Yes their is a chance that you can still end up with a not so great instructor if you do your research and everything appears to look great but in reality it was just a lot of B/S.

 

[Edward3c]

There are many agencies out there.

I am trying to clearly understand the true differences.

So, lets say you have multiple divers. They all have the same level of certification from different agencies. Lets say, they all have their own equipment. Lets also say they have the same number and types of dives.

As a buddy, would I notice a real difference?

Or, is the difference in the instructor who taught them their skills?

I would hope you would notice the difference between a PADI Advanced Open Water and a BSAC Advanced Diver apart from the difference in title (which a lot of operators miss).

The BSAC AD will have been assessed on Dive Management, Rescue Management in addition to demonstrating diving in a variety of conditions and situations. Like leading the dive, dives to 30m plus, with and without deco stops; night, low vis, freshwater and salt, drift, wreck; hard boat, RIB and shore; organising transport, accommodation, boats, compressors; in other words anything to do with running a diving trip or expedition.

See here for the syllabus.

 

[RJP]

Ability.

Part of me thinks that certain certifications are more about ability than about the card in their wallet.

It's the diver, not the card.

 

[rivers]

There are many agencies out there.

I am trying to clearly understand the true differences.

So, lets say you have multiple divers. They all have the same level of certification from different agencies. Lets say, they all have their own equipment. Lets also say they have the same number and types of dives.

As a buddy, would I notice a real difference?

Or, is the difference in the instructor who taught them their skills?

It depends. I think some of it has to do with instruction, but also some of it has to do with the diver's attitude and want to be a better diver, as well as keeping their skills in check.
I dive with people from various agencies with varying levels of experience. I have tons of buddies with qualifications from GUE, IANTD, TDI, PADI, BSAC, etc. For the most part, I can't really tell the difference amongst those who have similar qualifications and experience, with a few notable exceptions. One of them in particular, had literally just finished her BSAC Ocean Diver (entry level qualification), but you wouldn't have known by looking at her she only had 10-15 dives under her belt. I wouldn't hesitate to do any dive with her to the limits of her qualification (20m). But I've seen a BSAC Advanced diver (2nd highest BSAC qualification) who is such a mess in the water I wouldn't go for a dive with her in a local muddy puddle that has a max depth of 10m.

 

[RJP]

The one that stands out most to me is AOW. I was always amazed that you could be a PADI "Advanced" diver with only 9 dives. Compare that to SSI whose requirements are (used to be?) 5 specialty courses and 25 dives.


iPhone. iTypo. iApologize.

I'm always amazed that people think that "Advanced Open Water" means or should mean "Advanced diver"

It means just what it says:

Open Water Diver: noun; lowest/initial scuba diving certification
Advanced: adjective; further along in progress, knowledge or skill

So, in the plainest English possible, an "Advanced Open Water Diver" is someone who is "further along in progress, knowledge, or skill than the lowest/initial scuba certification."

My 16yr old daughter is taking "Advanced Algebra" this semester. She took "Algebra" last semester. The course is not "advanced mathematics" nor is she "an advanced mathematician" by any means... she is simply further along in progress, knowledge, or skill than last semester.

The SSI AOW requires four specialties and a minimum of 24 total dives. More than PADI's requirement for AOW, yes. But if your objection to PADI's name conveying that the diver is an "advanced diver" I'm not sure that SSI's use of the term is appropriate either. Just as with PADI, you one can get an SSI AOW card with very little diving experience... and possibly even never having done much if any diving outside of a training course.

People either need to accept the term as being accurate from an English language standpoint, or object to it's use by every agency. Can't have it both ways.

 

[bradells]

It's mainly up to the diver to better their skills they learned in classes. Rarely does one master them on a single training dive.

From my OW to AOW with PADI, I was your typical 'resort' diver. Mediocre-half decent buoyancy, slightly heads up while finning, vertical while stationary for 30 dives.

After my AOW, I worked personally on getting into trim, nailing down my buoyancy, navigation, etc for another 20 dives.

Then I put on a dry suit, and went into cold water with a GUE Instructor Intern. It was like starting all over again. They said I did great and pointed out where work needed to be done. I felt like day 1 back in OW class, glossing over during the book work.

More dives and getting comfortable in a dry suit, I took Fundies. Nailed down a few more skills for the next 40 dives.

I know exactly what any GUE diver can do, but with anyone else (in the rec realm), it's all up to the diver.

I travel alone to dive (even 'locally' in the PNW) Everyday I meet new divers at different certifications and dive #s. there's no way to know until after that first or second dive to know where they're at. Whether they'll bolt to the surface when something trivial goes wrong (like clearing a mask), or being frightened by a ray/eel/grouper/damselfish.

Actually, some of the best rec buddies I've dove with are fresh out of OW. They communicate, stay close and are where you expect them, and they expect you too.


After last week chatting with a few DMs, they're in the same boat on charters. They can get a grasp of the individual divers on the surface, but they truly don't know what's going to happen when they're finally under water.

BRad

 

[tbone1004]

Glad I'll never have to deal with those AOW cards from PADI or SSI. I actually wouldn't qualify for them Luckily with NAUI we don't have the specialty nonsense which is just a way to pad the shops and agencies pockets. Utter bs

 

[tbone1004]

duplicate post. Some 502 gateway timeout thing. Mods feel free to delete

 

[Hickdive]

There are so many variables that I think it is impossible to give a definitive answer.

Suffice it to say there are some people given the same course with the same instructor and the same equipment and same number of dives who will glide about effortlessly whilst others will look as they may at some point in their lives have slept with a diver's sister for that is the closest they will ever get to being a diver.

 

[Kharon]

Every certification is simply a learners permit. You get introduced to the skills you have to master and are checked that you understand the skills. Then it's on you to perfect them. How good a diver/buddy you/they are depends on your/their diligence in perfecting the skills. To me the card, number of dives/etc. don't mean much. I've dove with guys that claimed 400 dives and IMO they sucked both as buddies and divers. Others with comparatively few dives were great divers/buddies.