What is the problem with doing a Scuba Review/Refresher?

[TMHeimer]

I've been away and haven't read all the posts but I'll thrown in my 2 cents. If I were I diver with very few dives (10-20?--I remember what that was like) and haven't dived in over 6 months I think I would want to do a refresher. To be honest, I probably (no, positively being a cheap Scot) wouldn't want to pay extra for it. I wouldn't want a lengthy amount of time on it, as I am one who re-reads my manuals a bit most days (I did this before & after becoming a DM, and dive usually once a week most times of the year). I do understand a dive shop/op being concerned about someone forgetting basics and bolting, etc. It's a tricky question--we don't make drivers re-test because they took the bus for 6 months. I don't at all blame a shop for having such a rule, but I personally would look elsewhere if I had to pay (and of course, I could teach it-- and GET paid-- if I had the full insurance). However, If someone has a lot of dives over years and hasn't dived for one reason or another for 6 months, I think there needs to be some leeway. Suppose it's an instructor with 5,000 dives who recently broke his leg? Either way, logic should prevail.

 

[drbill]

A check out dive is a guided dive so the DM or instructor can assess their comfort in the water and skills level. The check out dive should be a normal dive just not an advanced dive, it should be a milder dive site with controlled, known, easy, predictable conditions. A check out dive is not a kneel on the bottom and do mask clearing and regulator retrievals.

Not sure I understand your point here. Yes, a checkout dive is an actual dive which is observed by a DM or instructor. It does not necessarily involve a demonstration of skills as in a course or refresher. The DM or instructor assesses the skills level by observing the diver as they dive. Why do you add the last sentence?

 

[chrisch]

... Yes, a checkout dive is an actual dive which is observed by a DM or instructor. It does not necessarily involve a demonstration of skills as in a course or refresher. ....

How do you assess a person's diving ability without a demonstration of skills? Is a (for example) 20 logged dives AOW with a 8 month break in diving OK to buddy up with his wife, OW 11 logged dives also 8 month break, and allow these two to dive unsupervised? How do you make that call? In fact is it acceptable to deny these two people the right to dive together if they wish to?

I remain deeply confused about the nature and purpose of so called "check out" dives. They would appear mainly to be for the convenience of the dive operator in grouping people and determining the amount of DM cover needed - is that how the dive op people see them?

 

[Croomrider]

How do you assess a person's diving ability without a demonstration of skills? Is a (for example) 20 logged dives AOW with a 8 month break in diving OK to buddy up with his wife, OW 11 logged dives also 8 month break, and allow these two to dive unsupervised? How do you make that call? In fact is it acceptable to deny these two people the right to dive together if they wish to?

Does the 8 month break make any difference in this scenario? I really fail to see a lot of significance to a break of a few months, or maybe even a couple of years. I think pretty much everybody should be given the benefit of the doubt if they feel confident they are OK. If they are not confident, they will seek or accept some kind of refresher, or at least an easy first dive.

Mike

 

[chrisch]

Does the 8 month break make any difference in this scenario? ..

I don't know Mike. I introduced it as the OP started with the 6 month break. Whilst I can see the "freedom" argument for allowing folk to do as they choose I can also see the anxiety that some dive ops might have. I am hoping someone from a dive op will tell the truth! Personally I am genuinely mystified.

 

[KeithG]

I'm pretty sure a "checkout dive" is mandated by the marine park rules. It's really just a weight check and part of the dive operator's explanation of the marine park rules - stay off the coral, no gloves, no kneepads, etc. etc.. It's a good idea, but no everyone comes out of the checkout dive properly weighted or even caring if they're properly weighted.

Definitely one of the Stinapa rules: STINAPA - Bonaire National Marine Park

Orientation: All SCUBA divers must attend an orientation with their dive operator (the center from which air tanks are obtained) before diving in the BNMP. The orientation consists of a ‘dry’ part and a ‘wet’ part. The ‘dry’ part is a briefing on the Bonaire National Marine Park rules. The ‘wet’ part of the orientation is the check out dive, which is always supervised by the dive operation providing air. Repeat divers are required to attend a dive orientation and perform a check out dive every time they are back on island.

BUT: The rules do not contain a definition of what "supervised" means. To the best of my knowledge, the only supervision I have had recently is the initial distribution of weights in the dive shop....

For which I am thankful. They treat us as mature adults.

 

[DeepSeaExplorer]

How do you assess a person's diving ability without a demonstration of skills? Is a (for example) 20 logged dives AOW with a 8 month break in diving OK to buddy up with his wife, OW 11 logged dives also 8 month break, and allow these two to dive unsupervised? How do you make that call? In fact is it acceptable to deny these two people the right to dive together if they wish to?

I remain deeply confused about the nature and purpose of so called "check out" dives. They would appear mainly to be for the convenience of the dive operator in grouping people and determining the amount of DM cover needed - is that how the dive op people see them?

After diving with many instabuddies, I can gauge a diver's ability just by watching him get his gear ready. I don't actually have to see him in the water. If he's rusty, it'll show on-deck as well.

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My objection would be to the 2.5 hours pool session, especially if I missed dive(s) doing it. If the person over-seeing the refresher needs that long to make an assessment, then they need a refresher, refresher.

 

[Mike]

Not sure I understand your point here. Yes, a checkout dive is an actual dive which is observed by a DM or instructor. It does not necessarily involve a demonstration of skills as in a course or refresher. The DM or instructor assesses the skills level by observing the diver as they dive. Why do you add the last sentence?

Maybe I missread or didn't interpret what you said before. WHen you said

Although I understand the OP's intent, I think requiring a refresher course for someone who has not dived in 6 months may be a little stringent. If they have not dived in the last year, maybe. I'd advise having the diver do a guided dive so the DM or instructor can assess their comfort in the water and skills level.

I was mildly offended when several dive ops required me to do a "check out" dive simply because my c-card was from the 1960s. I had recent logged dives they could view, but they still required it and almost all the dive ops sent me out with DMs or instructors that hadn't been born when I started diving back in 1961-62.

You said instead of a refresher just have the diver do a guided dive with the DM so they can assess their skills, which is a check out dive. Then you said you were offended when you were required to do a check out dive... it sounded like you were for check out dives, and then you were against them, leading me to believe maybe falsely that the check out dive you were forced to do was more of a refresher course.

 

[Skittl1321]

I don't really understand how a checkout dive assesses a divers skills. I didn't do a checkout dive in Cozumel, but our dive op did easy dive first, and then progressively more challenging (but still pretty easy). In 11 dives, my mask never needed to be cleared, my regulator never left my mouth. How did these dives show my skill at anything other than not crashing into the reef, holding a safety stop, and my ability to equalize/descend?

It seems like if an op wants an assessment of a diver's skills, they need to have them demonstrate them.

 

[Mike]

I don't really understand how a checkout dive assesses a divers skills.

A diver master can answer that with -"very easily"

If I was a professional, I personally wouldn't be worried whether a diver could accomplish low level skills like being able to clear their mask if by watching how they dived I could see them accomplishing higher level skills. In other words a diver displaying a high level of skilled diving is going to get the benefit of the doubt they can clear their mask without actually making them do it. Like any professional in any activity, I would imagine a professional, experienced dive master can observe a diver for 60 seconds and make a pretty accurate judgement call as to their skill level.