What is the problem with doing a Scuba Review/Refresher?

[Mike]

Sorry that's rubbish. Firstly, I'm not sure that mask clearing is a "low level" skill (whatever that means) it is a skill that seems to trouble many new divers. .

Exactly, it's a low level skill. If you said it's a skill that even tech divers with 5000 dives still have trouble with we'd have something to discuss. You seem to be confused. Of course buoyancy is one of the big clues to diver skill level. Poor divers have poor buoyancy control and of course it's one of the big clues a dive master will use to evaluate a diver during a check out dive. Show me an experienced diver with good buoyancy control who can't clear their mask.

 

[fire_diver]

Gee wiz Eric, I took a 3 day OW course several years ago. I was already comfortable in the water, and with my work schedule, it was the only way I could fit it in. Now after a couple hundred dives, I generally hover and let the wildlife come to me, scull around for a walk in the park, or sometimes I take a nap...seems like a pretty small hole you're stuffing all us pigeons (i.e. fakers and posers) into...

Why do you feel he was talking directly to you? I took a 3-day course too but I don't feel he's talking to me. People who are already completely comfortable in the water generally do fine with short courses. People who continue to dive often are also fine with short courses, but lets be honest here, that is a tiny percentage! Most people are barely able to swim and many have trouble just having their head underwater without a mask. So when you take THOSE people and give them a 3-day course, they can barely perform the skills. Then they go on once-a-year trips where they dive one day. THAT is the majority and THAT is who Eric was speaking of. The vast majority of SB members are not in that once-a-year-barely-able-to-dive group.

 

[gypsyjim]

Just because someone expresses an opinion in an open ended discussion, and sights their own experiences that does not mean they felt threatened or personally maligned.

 

[AdivingBel]

Why do you feel he was talking directly to you? I took a 3-day course too but I don't feel he's talking to me. People who are already completely comfortable in the water generally do fine with short courses. People who continue to dive often are also fine with short courses, but lets be honest here, that is a tiny percentage! Most people are barely able to swim and many have trouble just having their head underwater without a mask. So when you take THOSE people and give them a 3-day course, they can barely perform the skills. Then they go on once-a-year trips where they dive one day. THAT is the majority and THAT is who Eric was speaking of. The vast majority of SB members are not in that once-a-year-barely-able-to-dive group.

Sorry, when I see anybody...., consumers....., more than half...., industry...., it starts sounding like pigeon holing to me. If it's just a rant, that's fine... it's good for the digestion, I hear. Fakers and posers is pretty harsh, IMO.

Also, I'm not sure where this straw man that MOST people that become interested in scuba don't know how to swim. In my experience, the last thing that someone who can't swim wants to do is strap on lead weights and a tank and hop into something they are afraid of. I'm sure there are brave folks that see it as facing their fears, but I doubt it is MOST. In spite of the industry's "hey this is easy" dive campaign, I really haven't seen a general consensus in the over-all populous that scuba is a fluff, one-off sport. I don't have evidence other than meeting and talking with other divers (mostly on cattle boats), but they seem to come to scuba from a love of sports, the outdoors, adventure, and the WATER (be it lake, ocean, river, stream, pool, or bathtub). Hey, this is good for the digestion. Who knew...

 

[azstinger11]

So we just got back from Jamaica and almost ran into this. While I had been diving very recently my wife had been out of the water for about 8 months at that point. There were 2 points of contention for my wife about the thought of having to do the refresher course 1) while all the normal boat dives would be free of charge the refresher course was $200 2) we were already on an abbreviated trip and doing the refresher course made her miss the days boat trip. In the end it didn't matter as they used the 1 year criteria. I also had us go over a lot of the skills on the flight over and then in the water on the first dive at the resort. But since we always treat the first dive with rental gear as a checkout dive that wasn't a problem.

 

[boulderjohn]

Most people are barely able to swim and many have trouble just having their head underwater without a mask. So when you take THOSE people and give them a 3-day course, they can barely perform the skills. Then they go on once-a-year trips where they dive one day. THAT is the majority and THAT is who Eric was speaking of. The vast majority of SB members are not in that once-a-year-barely-able-to-dive group.

Man, the reality I see is way different from that. It has been years since I have had a student have any trouble with the 200 yard swim or the 10 minute float. In fact, because I have limited rental time in our pool and want to spend every second of that time on scuba, I usually feel frustrated watching the students do these requirements because I can see at a glance that they are going to pass the requirement. I would love to be able to cut those requirements off and get them into their gear.

I don't remember ever having a student have "trouble just having their head underwater without a mask."

The overwhelming majority of my students pick up the skills easily. Yes, some take longer than others, but I can easily get all the students in a class through the required skills in pretty short order. What that would cost me in a short course is the part of the standards that too many people overlook:

CW Dive #1: Fun and Skill Practice--"Swim with scuba equipment while maintaining control of both direction and depth."

CW Dive #2: Fun and Skill Practice--"Indicate remaining air supply within 20 bar/300 PSI without rechecking the SPG."

CW Dive #3: Fun and Skill Practice--"While neutrally buoyant, swim slowly in a horizontal position to determine trim. Adjust trim, as feasible, for a normal swimming position." "Indicate remaining air supply within 20 bar/300 PSI without rechecking the SPG."

CW Dive #4: Fun and Skill Practice--"With a buddy, swim over a simulated environmentally sensitive bottom while maintaining buoyancy control." "Indicate remaining air supply within 20 bar/300 PSI without rechecking the SPG."

CW Dive #5: "Complete a simulated dive--Mini Dive--including (long bulleted list follows).​

While the wording for these requirements is from the new standards, the old standards were still supposed to include a significant amount of time swimming and learning to control buoyancy. Over the years I learned that the more time I spent on that, the better the students were at the end of the class. If I just did the specific skills and spent little or not time on the swimming portion of the class, I could whip through the skills in no time and leave divers with no real idea of how to dive with comfort and ease.

 

[TMHeimer]

I don't know. In my limited DMing I would say that perhaps 10-20% (?) are not really very comfortable in water. As for doing the 200 swim, I have seen very few fail, but quite a few doing it awkwardly and/or almost dying at the end. But that's another old discussion.

 

[boulderjohn]

I don't know. In my limited DMing I would say that perhaps 10-20% (?) are not really very comfortable in water. As for doing the 200 swim, I have seen very few fail, but quite a few doing it awkwardly and/or almost dying at the end. But that's another old discussion.

I have never had anyone fail--not even close. Many don't look great doing it, but looking great is not a requirement. Almost dying at the end? Pretty rare for me. I tell them that this is not a race and I don't want them to be too tired at the end to be effective in the class.Maybe its that warning that makes the difference, but for me the swim test is almost always a big waste of time.

Fire_diver's contention was "People who continue to dive often are also fine with short courses, but lets be honest here, that is a tiny percentage! Most people are barely able to swim and many have trouble just having their head underwater without a mask." I am just flabbergasted by that.

 

[Hawkwood]

I'm in your camp John. I rarely see this when teaching.

Just to put it out there, I am a poor swimmer.

 

[Skittl1321]

You did a checkout dive but did not realize it. That is fairly typical of a good Cozumel op with an unfamiliar diver. This works pretty well in Cozumel as there really aren't any "bad" dive sites.

Oh, I was aware the DM was sizing me up; but it seems many other places require these refresher courses- demonstrating mastery of all the skills you learned in OW. Or checkout dives which are shallower dives than the regular dives. That first day, we dove the same profiles as we did the whole week. Now maybe if someone in the group proved to be a basket case in the first few minutes, we wouldn't have gone so deep? In my week of diving, while the DM never found out that I kind of freak when I lose my regulator or mask. Based on how day 1 to day 2 went, I think she ruled me fairly competent, as there were a lot less frequent air checks on day 2 (with some divers, she would actually look at the gauge for them). Now, she probably picked up on the fact that I might be a problem (I hold my mask and regulator to my face when in tight spaces with lots of other divers kicking around)- but the "checkout" of my skills really didn't say anything about how I might do in an emergency. A refresher would do that better.

Not that I'm advocating mandatory refreshers, as I have limited dive time on vacation. I just don't think a checkout and a refresher serve the same purpose. A checkout seems to show how a diver will do on a normal dive; a refresher seems to see if they are prepared for the less likely situations. We are actually off to the quarry this weekend just so I can clear my mask and recover my regulator in preparation for a December dive trip. Otherwise we don't dive there because it is cold, dark, shallow, and boring. Ugh, and we have to put our own gear together. I don't do that at all in Cozumel