"What if ..?"

[Sas]

er... yeah.

You need a hug or something? I'm out of my comfort zone now. (typical man, eh?)

R..

Hahaha thanks but I'm fine I had a crappy childhood but so far have had an awesome adulthood so the past really doesn't bother me any more And I am luckier than some, in that I have one great parent.

It goes back to what DaleC said, people form their opinions based on their frame of reference. Mine is a reference where I'm childless and I understand that parents can be awful for their children.

 

[Thalassamania]

I was asking my partner about this actually. He says men are raised with the idea that they must protect others so it would be a natural response. I don't think that this makes it correct, however.

I'd guess that your partner is not up on the evolutionary biology literature. Nurture likely has little to do with it, there are good reasons why there would be balancing selection in a population favoring the self, the offspring, the mate and also other more distant relatives (the tribe). In any case the automatic response to aid/save/protect anyone with neotonic (childlike) features appears to be inborn, though not absolute, like most characteristics there can be significant variation. Your response, while not wrong is, at least, unusual ... but then so is an IQ significantly above 100.

 

[AndyNZ]

I'm a parent and I'll tell you with 1000% certainty.... I'd rather die than see one of my kids die.

I genuinely believe that outliving one's children must be one of the greatest tragedies I can think of.

 

[DaleC]

I don't think it's wrong to know you don't want children. I never intentionally wanted them myself.

I was well on the way to becoming a high level climber (that was actually my career choice at the time) when I met my future wife. Long story short, she had a 2 year old boy from a previous marriage with a father who was not in the picture. I just saw him as a child that had no father (through no fault of his own) and thought that I would try to give him that. Completely irrational and definately something I would not have foreseen 6 months prior. 18 years later, we're still happily married with two more kids and while I do not regret my role as a father at all, there are times when I do feel the loss of my previous dreams.

Some decisions are not simple win/lose propositions I have learned.

Having said that though, I am sure my life has benefited others more (directly and indirectly) and that I have grown more (emotionally/spiritually) by choosing the path I did. Even if I have gone kicking and screaming through parts of it.

Everybody is different though. Mother Theresa benefited many people but was never a mother herself.

 

[Sas]

I'd guess that your partner is not up on the evolutionary biology literature.

Funnily enough he is, and we did discuss that aspect of it. He said he would save a peson with children first and that I'm "wrong just like in all our arguments"

Your response, while not abnormal is, at least, unusual ... but then so is an IQ significantly above 100.

I think the drive to have children and to protect them is largely in the interests of the species, not so much my interests when it comes down to it. I'm not knocking those that have children, as there is the urge in most to pass on their genetic material so it is to be expected but I've just never felt that need, perhaps I will later, though I hope not as passing on my genetic material doesn't seem to have the same appeal as not having responsibility for a dependent.

Some decisions are not simple win/lose propositions I have learned.

That is a really good point. I don't think I would 'lose' as such if I had a child (or 'win' for that matter), but there would be a lot of my plans I would have to give up to do so. And if I don't have children I will miss out on the experience of parenthood, which from what I have seen is really quite amazing for most people. Like most things it's weighing up the pros and cons and deciding but to me the balance clearly tips one way.

 

[DaleC]

I genuinely believe that outliving one's children must be one of the greatest tragedies I can think of.

Strange story: When I was in my 30's my father was slowly dying of kidney failure and required a transplant. Out of love I offered one (even though it might have put me at risk later on) and out of love he refused (because it would put me at risk later on). Crazy wonderful bastard.

Like some others I also had a somewhat questionable childhood. My father was dyslexic (back when it was called stupid) and was functionally illiterate (he hid this fact from us for most of his life). About the highest level of job he could hold was driving a tow truck (which he did steadily for 30+ years). He was often frustrated and confused by fatherhood and could be harsh, or worse, emotionally absent as a result. My two brothers hold a rather negative view of him as a result but I managed to transend the reality of my upbringing by recognising his intentions (which did not always match his actions) and today think fondly of him.

 

[irishsquid]

I remember not having children. And thinking that I didn't want them either. You may think you don't like children, but if you had one, I'll gladly buy you any regulator setup you want if you can actually say you wouldn't tear someone's eyes out if they tried to harm your baby. It's a scary, powerful love.

Same here. I was 32 when my daughter was born. I would go Postal Terminator on the human race if it tried to hurt my baby girl. She's 20yrs old now and I still feel the same way. :biggun:

er... yeah.
You need a hug or something? I'm out of my comfort zone now. (typical man, eh?)
R..

:grouphug:

I genuinely believe that outliving one's children must be one of the greatest tragedies I can think of.

Ditto!

 

[Walter]

I don't think that this makes it correct, however.

I just said with our current situation, it's no longer rational.

This is idealistic and untrue. Some parents this applies to (the majority I would expect), other parents it does not.

It is idealistic. It is also true. You are correct it does not apply to all parents. There are lowlife people who become parents. No arguments. It is still true.

Some parents do not love their children.

True, but they are the exception, not the rule.

I don't like children and I also have genetic issues I do not want to pass onto a child. Some of us just don't want children. This doesn't equal a less fulfilled life.

True and some people shouldn't have children. From what you've told us about him, your father was one of those. I'm sorry you had to experience that.

I'm not embarrassed by the actions of my father

You shouldn't be. You didn't do it.

 

[Tortuga68]

Has Gabe Watson posted in this thread yet?

 

[Tortuga68]

But seriously... it seems like some people are taking this as a technical question (you shouldn't ever be in that situation/try to find a way out of it) whereas others are taking it as a moral dilemma (do you save yourself or risk you both dying?)