"What if ..?"

[DaleC]

An awful lot of scientists apply Occam's razor to God and self-identify as atheists. What they're stating is just that they feel it 99% likely that God does not exist, even if there is no scientific proof, and they feel the burden of proof is on providing the proof that God exists[*].

[*] And for the religious people reading this, I'm not arguing that you have to entertain this viewpoint, but that a lot of scientists entertain this viewpoint.

In the spirit of simple discussion though, would those same scientists also claim that 99% of the universe/existance/reality is known. If not, what do they base their opinion on?

But I do respect this "they feel the burden of proof is on providing the proof that God exists" in the sense that I don't feel the need to prove anything to anybody but myself. If I discuss such matters it is just for discussion sake or to improve my own understanding. We each walk our own path that way.

 

[mdb]

Since this thread has now become a discussion of religion, metaphysics, and philosophy, perhaps a mod can split this into "What do you believe" and let the various pundits have at it while the original post would continue to provide the "What If..." question some more real practical input.

 

[Trace Malinowski]

Since this thread has now become a discussion of religion, metaphysics, and philosophy, perhaps a mod can split this into "What do you believe" and let the various pundits have at it while the original post would continue to provide the "What If..." question some more real practical input.

Mdb,

I was just thinking about how this was thread-related, minutes ago, when I logged in again to provide an answer:

I believe that the search for ultimate truth is a good way to spend those last minutes of one's life if one is going to stick with a buddy knowing they probably won't make it out alive. It may somehow help one make sense of his or her life during a final, but brief, examination and somehow complete the journey. As Socrates said, "The unexamined life is not worth living."

 

[mdb]

Very good thought Trace-as usual.

I was just hoping that the various scenarios from experienced folks would keep being presented.
There have been many posts that provide good information on the practical "What if ?" side.

Although I studied Metaphysics as an undergrad, work with Buddhists, grew up Catholic, am married to a nice Jewish gal, and all that, I really don't join into philosophical discussions. Each to their own.

I am interested in your OP question-hope we get some more input.

 

[mafiajoe]

Since this thread has now become a discussion of religion, metaphysics, and philosophy, perhaps a mod can split this into "What do you believe" and let the various pundits have at it while the original post would continue to provide the "What If..." question some more real practical input.

Very good thought Trace-as usual.

I was just hoping that the various scenarios from experienced folks would keep being presented.
There have been many posts that provide good information on the practical "What if ?" side.

Although I studied Metaphysics as an undergrad, work with Buddhists, grew up Catholic, am married to a nice Jewish gal, and all that, I really don't join into philosophical discussions. Each to their own.

I am interested in your OP question-hope we get some more input.

Absolutely!

__________________

 

[Trace Malinowski]

What we only touched on, but what we should cover more deeply, are possible strategies for getting out alive, either alone, or with a buddy team in the bleak scenario I originally posted?

Such as:

Obviously, the shallower that the team can travel, the better, to help conserve gas - which someone mentioned.

What other strategies might work? Pulling and gliding during exit? Skip-breathing? Moving into the scooter/diver tow position to help reduce drag while in touch contact?

Just playing Devil's Advocate here. Any thoughts or considerations for making swimming efficiency and gas consumption more favorable to survival?

 

[AndyNZ]

What we only touched on, but what we should cover more deeply, are possible strategies for getting out alive, either alone, or with a buddy team in the bleak scenario I originally posted?

What's the water temperature?

I remember reading a phenomenal story about a Norwegian fisherman who was swept off the boat during a storm, and was washed ashore (unbreathing, no heartbeat) 36 hours later and successfully revived.

The assumption was that he must have had an open mouth when he hit the water, that chilled his core right down.

So, in dire straights, maybe preserving the gas isn't the best strategy? Voluntarily pull the reg out, ingest a lot of cold water and hope that you get revived after your buddy tows you out.... after all, if you're screwed anyway, what have you got to lose?

 

[Thalassamania]

Too ABYSSal.

 

[Trace Malinowski]

Watching a climbing film right now called Touching the Top of the World about Erik Weihenmayer, the first blind climber to summit Everest. It has me thinking about Andy's post about how a climber is dying at that altitude.

Um ... Andy? My friend, what are we doing as divers as each breath we take underwater in an overhead with no direct access to the surface means one less breath of life? Time is gas and gas is time.

If we don't think we are dying with each breath we take in a cave, we aren't giving a cave the respect it deserves.

I think most of us were thinking something around 72°F, but if you are running out of gas with Jill Heinerth, Paul Heinerth, and Wes Skiles in an iceberg cave like they dove, your tactic might work.

 

[AndyNZ]

Um ... Andy? My friend, what are we doing as divers as each breath we take underwater in an overhead with no direct access to the surface means one less breath of life? Time is gas and gas is time.

On one level, I agree Trace.... but on another, the purely physiological one, it's different.

At altitude, there simply isn't enough O2 in the gas you are breathing to sustain life, your cells are dying one by one, albeit a slow death. During a dive, your body is vibrant and ripe with life giving oxygen, just when that oxygen runs out you have a more tumultuous ending.