What if you need to use some of that 500 psi contigency reserve?

[S. starfish]

Panic kills not out of air!

Being out of air probably helps though!

Now everybody take out a circle of paper!

 

[PvtStash]

!!!

 

[DandyDon]

Even while some here may not fully appreciate the way Papa Bear expresses his thots, he is a very experienced diver. I cross words with Roatan Man at times, but I still appreciate his vastly superior experience level, I try to be polite even when I disagree, and I always keep an open mind to learn from him - the most important.

I suggest everybody consider taking a tank that needs visual inspection into shallow water (10') and breath it down until the reg does not give you a full breath. By all means be safe, wear a full tank and hold that reg for safety. There are three things I learned by doing this; What my gauge reads when I can't get a full breath (at 10'), what my reg feels like when I drop below the normal delivery pressure (at 10') and that no matter how long I sucked on the tank I still had enough tank pressure to dry an Aqualung dust (water) cap. Also, if the last air in your tank goes into your BC (at the surface), the pressure in the tank is equal to the pressure in your BC, so the tank is not really empty, it just can't put any more air into the BC.

IMHO, you would have to take the first stage off, open the tank until it makes no air escaping noise (actually empty)and then submerge the open tank to get water in it. Perhaps this would be a good question to ask Myth Busters!

You may have got away with it, but you won't always. And my pony didn't get enough to hurt, but my valve did. Instead of having a valve rebuilt and tank vized and hydroed, I should have bought a new pony.

 

[Stu S.]

500 psi is 20% of a steel 72, 16% of an aluminum 80, and about 14% of a steel HP tank. What makes 500 the correct amount for everyone? That "amount" of air represents different amounts of breathing for different people and situations. SAC is a factor that makes 500 psi a very general rule. A starting point for good thinking, perhaps.

Having said that, I lent a pal an HP-100. I was bothered when it came back with 150 psi in it. That's cutting it too close.

 

[MikeFerrara]

Well let me tell you I have been on the California Dive accident investigation board in the 70's and investigated drownings of single and buddy teams and I will tell you you are advocating the most dangerous behavior in diving! Tell me the agency that teaches what you advocating and I will contact them, because they need to be educated!

Every agency teaches one or more methods of air sharing from early on in confined water training.

Every agency that I have had contact with teaches that the first best option in an OOA situation is to get air from a buddy.

What sense does it make to go to a buddy for air if the buddy hasn't any to spare?

TSandM and others are only recommending that a diver have some air available to donate.

I'm up for this...you pick the agency and lets see what they have to say on the matter.

I will with my experience encourage every diver hold precious their air! Anything else is criminal! Look this isn't playing games this is life or death and at the end of the day I go home! Better one dead diver than two.

Pardon, but NO dead divers is what we're after. If you feel that donating air is such a risk, perhaps it is your who could use better training.

I have been a public safety diver for a number of years and have done things you can't even imagine!

Like what? You keep going on and on about your experience and expertise but you don't back it up with anything and go on and on about following divemasters.

But I will post where I see fit, I notice you have no problem posting as you feel necessary! So maybe you should get an eduction in basic diving before you promote "Give your life to your buddy" type diving!

When I donate breathing gas, I'm not giving my life to anybody. I am simply donating the gas that I know I have to spare.

 

[MikeFerrara]

Well your lack of experience is showing! I decide based on if your in control and if your calm!

Why would the diver be anything but calm?

I would rather drag you to the surface and resuscitate you than kill myself with a panicked diver!

Dead people usually stay dead

In life guarding you are taught to take a drowning victim down until they submit.

In recreational diving rescue courses divers are taught several methods of getting away from and/or controling a paniced victem. One of which is to descend yourself but NOT to take the victem under. Dead people usually stay dead and most countries have laws agains committing acts that cause them to become dead.

I don't know your level of training!

I don't know yours either so lets clear that up. I have just about all the training that's available to a civilian diver....cave, trimix, former IANTD instructor, former PADI instructor with a couple thousand dives and every single one of them without a babysitter.

So if I am low and your out we do an emergency accent!

Why would you get in that situation.

I will control the air! If I am in control I will decide all the management of your rescue!

Donating a little gas isn't a rescue.

It is the price you pay for using all your air up!

Nobody should be out of air because they "used it all up". If a diver is without air it should because of equipment failure. For instance...here in the land of cold water, free flows are fairly common.

I have investigated dead buddies who died struggling over the rescuers regulator!

Why strugle over a reg. I intend that a diver in need of air take the reg from my mouth. I keep another one on a necklace right under my chin.

So before you charge in and give someone that was not trained like you YOUR AIR!

Why would I be diving with someone who isn't trained in air sharing? In a pinch, I'll just train them...before we do any real dives.

And when you have a 1000 dives speak up Mr. 100 to 199 been diving a year! Glad your getting entertained I hope you get educated!

I hope nobody here mistakes anything you say for education. To be blunt, I think you have a dangerous attitude. To quote another well known fellow "don't dive with divers who have dangerous attitudes"

 

[MikeFerrara]

Well you don't feel like a god when someone comes at you with there eyes wide and screaming in the water!

right, so why not just give them some air and head off the problem before it gets to that point?

Have you ever seen someone drown? Well I have! If I were god buddy it wouldn't have happened at all, but CPR does work and don't give up!

CPR rarely works and dead people usually stay dead.

 

[The Kraken]

After long, arduous, and considered study of the basis of this thread, I have come to the following conclusion:

If you have an urgent and critical need to breathe and have air in your tank, breathe.

That's all I got to say 'bout that . . .

the K-ump

 

[D_B]

I'll have to admit to running my tank below 500psi a couple of times .. after a dive to 70ft or so and following the contour back to the boat at 20 to 15ft with 800psi, I've swam around till I had less than 500psi (HP100)
I guess you could say it was a safety stop wth stuff to look at ... I also was with a very competent buddy who I trust implicitly, and knew what he had in his tank, at a shallow depth, and we were right under the boat, in good seas ... I would not imagine doing it on purpose in anything less than those circumstances

 

[redacted]

You will understand your air consumption and that physics are your friend because you are not fighting the water your body is 85% water and it becomes natural!

The average body is 2% crap. Apparently the variance on this component of the body is quite high. Anjd in rare cases, that becomes natural!