What if all instruction was free...

[lhpdiver]

When I was first certified (73) my "BASIC SCUBA DIVER" certification took about 10 weeks and the instructor (PADI #2083) taught us everything he knew about diving. I don't remember the cost but I was a college student so it couldn't have been much.

If there were that sort of mentailty today maybe you wouldn't need all the different levels. Maybe there would be more of a mentor-like environment. Maybe the pace would slow, people would lose their anxiety, they would actually practice and their regular meetings with their mentors would reinforce their progress. I'll bet there'd be alot of peer information sharing. Dive shops could have movie night where they show video of proper/different techniques.

Of course the instructor could still accept tips (much like a boat based DiveMaster). Who knows - they might be better off.

Does this already exist somewhere ?

 

[mikswi]

Hmmm........Intresting posture. I need to think about this some.

 

[simbrooks]

Communism sounded like a good idea when Karl Marx set it out, it was only the people who then "led" the people who twisted it to their own ways and corrupted it. Kind of analogous to diving as the capitalist way wins through. Those who teach like to get paid for it, but if the course ran over 10 weeks and involved one night per week instruction and 1 further of pool/confined with the last few weekends in open water it would be good, but where time = money, that would cost quite a bit. How much would you charge for 20 nights (say at 3-4 hours per night) and 4 weekend days to a student (or group of students)??? From what i hear becoming an instructor costs, maintaining that pro level of insurance costs and to recoup at least some of that money you have to charge - although i hear you would never quite get back all you paid out, they do it for the love of the sport and teaching. That is just part of your question, the baby-step type approach and even this i am sure has been covered many times on here - the many carded instruction method is just a time bomb waiting to go off in this thread now.

I would like to hear the views and opinions from the instructors, if they would like to teach for free or for tips etc rather than setting out a course fee?

 

[Rick Murchison]

you get what you pay for.
Rick

 

[Uncle Pug]

Does this already exist somewhere?

Would you be willing to get your instructor certification and start this new altruistic trend of free scuba instruction?

 

[scubatexastony]

Would you be willing to get your instructor certification and start this new altruistic trend of free scuba instruction?

Yes.

 

[jbd]

When I was first certified (73) my "BASIC SCUBA DIVER" certification took about 10 weeks and the instructor (PADI #2083) taught us everything he knew about diving. I don't remember the cost but I was a college student so it couldn't have been much.

If there were that sort of mentailty today maybe you wouldn't need all the different levels. Maybe there would be more of a mentor-like environment. Maybe the pace would slow, people would lose their anxiety, they would actually practice and their regular meetings with their mentors would reinforce their progress. I'll bet there'd be alot of peer information sharing. Dive shops could have movie night where they show video of proper/different techniques.

Of course the instructor could still accept tips (much like a boat based DiveMaster). Who knows - they might be better off.

Does this already exist somewhere ?

Would there be an absolute guarantee that instructors teaching for tips only could not be sued?

 

[headhunter]

I've actually been thinking about what a different system of training would look like.

I don't think that teaching for free would make sense. There are too many costs associated with teaching to ignore.

The only thing that I could come up with is this.

You could be charged on a monthly basis and continue to get teaching. It seems that most people don't mind paying a small amount per month on an ongoing basis.

The idea of paying monthly works well with martial arts instruction. I pay a certain amount per month and get to train.

The idea would be to have a few divers that would be considered Grand Masters. They could train Masters and the Masters in turn could train those less advanced than them.

With SCUBA I don't think it would make sense for anyone at a level less than a Master to train anyone else. In martial arts if a brown belt teaches a white belt the wrong way to block a kick or a punch the worst that usually happens is that someone either gets the wind knocked out of them or a bad bruise. In SCUBA, incorrect information could easily get someone killed.

To continue with the analogy. You could have different Grand Masters representing different styles of diving. For instance, JJ could teach DIR. Curt Bowen could teach Sidemount. Some might just work with wreck divers, others might work only with cave divers. Maybe someone would concentrate on deep diving, where as someone else might consentrate on recreational diving. There would be overlap between the different styles and some would teach a combination of them.

Once someone reaches the Master level they would no longer pay for their own instruction, but would then instruct others as a way of giving back to the diving community. If they open up their own schools they would then get the monthly payments and give a portion of that to their Grand Master in appreciation for what they were taught and to remain affiliated with that organization.

I think you get the idea.

I think it would work well and that people would be much better trained in the long run.

Just a thought about a competing model.

Christian

 

[Kim]

I've actually been thinking about what a different system of training would look like.

I don't think that teaching for free would make sense. There are too many costs associated with teaching to ignore.

The only thing that I could come up with is this.

You could be charged on a monthly basis and continue to get teaching. It seems that most people don't mind paying a small amount per month on an ongoing basis.

The idea of paying monthly works well with martial arts instruction. I pay a certain amount per month and get to train.

The idea would be to have a few divers that would be considered Grand Masters. They could train Masters and the Masters in turn could train those less advanced than them.

With SCUBA I don't think it would make sense for anyone at a level less than a Master to train anyone else. In martial arts if a brown belt teaches a white belt the wrong way to block a kick or a punch the worst that usually happens is that someone either gets the wind knocked out of them or a bad bruise. In SCUBA, incorrect information could easily get someone killed.

To continue with the analogy. You could have different Grand Masters representing different styles of diving. For instance, JJ could teach DIR. Curt Bowen could teach Sidemount. Some might just work with wreck divers, others might work only with cave divers. Maybe someone would concentrate on deep diving, where as someone else might consentrate on recreational diving. There would be overlap between the different styles and some would teach a combination of them.

Once someone reaches the Master level they would no longer pay for their own instruction, but would then instruct others as a way of giving back to the diving community. If they open up their own schools they would then get the monthly payments and give a portion of that to their Grand Master in appreciation for what they were taught and to remain affiliated with that organization.

I think you get the idea.

I think it would work well and that people would be much better trained in the long run.

Just a thought about a competing model.

Christian

The trouble is - we don't all live in America! Actually I believe in some countries in Europe training is often much more club based - and they tend to train a lot more than an average PADI (or other agency) does. Wether it also works out cheaper I don't know.

 

[headhunter]

The trouble is - we don't all live in America! Actually I believe in some countries in Europe training is often much more club based - and they tend to train a lot more than an average PADI (or other agency) does. Wether it also works out cheaper I don't know.

I actually find it funny that you say, "The trouble is - we don't all live in America!" The example I'm referring to came from Japan and I see you're in Kyushu. My Grand Master in karate is from Fukuoka and that is who I get the idea from.

I just think that another business model might be more successful and produce better students than the one that currently seems to be the norm for the dive industry.

The model I propose may not be the best either, but I've seen it work well in another arena. Where you are in the world should not be a limiting factor because you already have people who would be qualified to teach under a new system. There may be a short learning curve on whatever standards need to be adopted, but I could imagine things going well from there.

GUE seems to be working with a slightly different business model and as a result I think they are seeing increased demand for what they are offering.

The "club based" training in some parts of Europe that you mention may actually be the beginning of what I'm talking about.

I'd be interesed to know if anyone has ever tried teaching diving this way. I don't think it would actually work out "cheaper", but it may be more affordable to people in the short run. It's the same concept used by health clubs. They charge a lot of people a little bit every month and make a small fortune in the process. I've also seen this type of system used in the dance industry. So, it's actually nothing new.

Christian