What do you wish you could change about your (rec) wreck diving class?

[Ojai Diver]

• There is not enough time spent learning to lay line properly.

• There is no requirement in the PADI system that a wreck instructor have any real training in laying line before teaching the class. In contrast, the PADI cavern diver class requires the instructor to be a certified cave diver, meaning that a PADI cavern instructor is required to have plenty of serious training on laying line.

• You are not allowed to "penetrate" a wreck until the end of the course when learning to lay line,

I agree with all this. I spent maybe 20 minutes total underwater laying line, and maybe 5 minutes doing so in penetration.

Even in the manual, the correct techniques for laying line are hardly mentioned. (I learned more from You Tube about that.)

I don't fault the instructors-- they were teaching the curriculum. I think the curriculum was weak.

 

[Bert van den Berg]

In addition, I do not remember the PADI wreck diver manual mentioning not pointing your dive light directly at other divers. My instructor passed me that good bit of information on our first penetration dive.

 

[Schwob]

I share the sentiment:
As I experienced it last year, the PADI wreck class was, as taught, extremely weak and thin in the actual diving and doing part.

- nothing much done or checked on cababilities on certain kicks (e.g. frog and mod. flutter)

- participants not screened properly if they belong (there were 3, one, a drysuit diver had no business being there, Helped him ascending on the first dive, because he looked like he was in trouble... senty buddy after the instructor who was about to vanish !!! Turns out DS diver "just" had tons of buoancy issues and was approaching ooa... Then during the actual wreck penetration dive DS diver, (first to follow the instructor, me behind DS man, because I felt he needed to be watched) in his buoancy troubles (floaty feet) decided to wrap himself up in the wreckline the instructor just laid. 2x around, diagonally, bouncing off the wreck walls, floor and ceiling. Couldn't believe it. Instructor disappeared, still laying line. Needed to wait until DS man calmed down (or tired out) I was not going to approach him while he was that much out of control.
Then I calmed him down more and unwrapping started. Then the instructor came back. DS man, after calming down some more and breathing normally again was handed off to someone outside for ascend. Wreck class continued (actually, albeit unplanned, I learned something there). in a hurried up form, because air was getting low... But I followed a line and laid a line in the wreck. did so on an earlier dive outside. noted a couple distances.. made a sketch... seem thats all Padi wants. Weak, really weak.

- Decided then and there to try to learn more elsewhere when I have time to learn more, as well as to definitely get a solo card and practice basics when I have a chance (not penetration (yet), just stuff I cant wing yet, like back finning)

- Best part was an extracuricular activity (another day, another place, another "dive buddy" (experienced person acting as such), not part of any class, small (clean) wreck, where I had a chance to do all that in a silt out... But, there is only limited value to that in a rather short straight in straight back out wreck... But that was worth doing.

So, Kudus to all those instructors doing notably better. Be sure to make yourselves known, because that instructor interviewing thing, locally, really does not work all that well for me... and maybe others... LDSes are nice. The "part of the family thing" some of them like to impart can be a bit problematic...

 

[Maldives Diving Adventure]

The most charming and instructive dives were the penetration dives and taking in the best possible systems for sending a line and swimming in order to not mix up residue.
Penetration diving or no clear surface diving plunging is a sort of jumping where the scuba diver enters a space from which there is no immediate, simply vertical rising to the well being of breathable quality of the environment at the surface.
I suggest you firstly take class.
Diving Adventure Maldives

 

[geoff w]

I recently finished my PADI Wreck cert. class. ...
I wasn't expecting to emerge as John Chatterton on getting this cert, but I had hoped I would learn more than I did. A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing, and I was looking for more than a little...

I took the advanced wreck class with John a couple of weeks ago, and I can honestly state I'm not the same level of wreck diver as John Chatterton either, and given his background, experience and knowledge I'll never be able to accomplish that in my lifetime. I'm a much better wreck diver, and learned a lot. And I got to put a number of new / improved skills to good use last weekend DMing for a PADI wreck class. Even after taking the TDI advanced wreck class from John, it's very much like PADI - a finite number of dives, lots of skills introduced, practiced and improved, learning to think about the discipline at a higher level, but in the end it's only a starting point for going out on your own, safely diving at your level of training, and becoming a better diver

Anybody who thinks they will be an expert after taking any dive certification class, whether open water, advanced wreck, cave 3, tec 3, or whatever, is kidding themselves, just like any class in school or workplace professional training doesn't make you an expert. You only get to be an expert by putting what you learned in class to use, making mistakes that don't kill you and learning from them, until the point where you are able to perform at the expert level. The trick is realizing a shiny new plastic card that says you're qualified for something is just the starting point and still realizing how little you know and how much you have to learn

 

[Ojai Diver]

Anybody who thinks they will be an expert after taking any dive certification class, whether open water, advanced wreck, cave 3, tec 3, or whatever, is kidding themselves, just like any class in school or workplace professional training doesn't make you an expert. You only get to be an expert by putting what you learned in class to use, making mistakes that don't kill you and learning from them, until the point where you are able to perform at the expert level. The trick is realizing a shiny new plastic card that says you're qualified for something is just the starting point and still realizing how little you know and how much you have to learn

Obviously.

I made clear that I did not expect an expertise. What I did expect was to get enough of the fundamentals on which to safely build skills, and I don't thing I did. In fact, I fear it is likely that there are divers out there who, in getting the cert I did, also received a false sense of confidence in their training ("Wow-I now know how to penetrate a wreck!") that, far from making them safer, will only imperil them.

 

[Landau]

What I liked most about my Rec Wreck course:

Practicing laying line in an area of girders and other debris at our local dive site while the instructor was digging up the silt like crazy to create a low viz environment. There was no overhead for this so safe but but good skills and entertaining at the same time.
Last dive on an artificial reef destroyer. I had toured this destroyer over 20 years previously when it was still in service and above the water.

What I didn't like:

Mapping a wreck exercise. The three students followed the instructor and each created a map as we went. Would have preferred to pick my own course while mapping. I would have done more passes and in a different order and different starting points - mostly a matter of preference and the way my brain thinks. If I ever map a wreck in real life I'll do it with a buddy. One completely responsible for choosing course, mapping etc and the other just making sure everything is safe - don't let the mapper get tunnel vision etc. I think this would produce a better map.

 

[geoff w]

Obviously.

I made clear that I did not expect an expertise. What I did expect was to get enough of the fundamentals on which to safely build skills, and I don't thing I did. In fact, I fear it is likely that there are divers out there who, in getting the cert I did, also received a false sense of confidence in their training ("Wow-I now know how to penetrate a wreck!") that, far from making them safer, will only imperil them.

Just curious what skills you got short changed on. You said you and your classmates only did 3 dives instead of the 4 required per PADI standards, so presumably you did a wreck dive as one of the 5 required for AOW certification. The main skills for the wreck class from the 4 dives are (from memory): 1) assessing the outside of the wreck to understand the structure and identify hazards, 2) mapping all or a subsection of interest of the wreck, learning how to use a penetration reel (or spool) over a distance with intermediate tie-off points, following the line and then retrieving, and 4) ideally following your instructor in to safely penetrate the wreck. Plus knowledge reviews, hopefully some wisdom imparted by your instructor before and while debriefing your dives, and the written test. Even though the PADI student wreck manual is pretty skimpy, there is a lot of information in there. I re-read it before going through the TDI student advanced wreck manual, and probably at least half of the advance TDI book contents was already covered in the PADI wreck diver book. Assuming you had a decent instructor, I'm sure they would appreciate the feedback that you don't think you got enough wreck diving fundamentals in the class and they should be happy to follow up on topics you feel were missing. Of course, this is assuming you got a C-card saying you're a wreck diver instead of flunking the class

Of all the PADI classes I've taken and/or assisted with, you really only get a flavor of the basics, even though it's referred to as mastery upon completion, then it's up to you to put those fundamental skills to use and become proficient as you build confidence. Even after Chatterton's advanced wreck, and having dived it multiple times, the Yukon is still an intimidating dive that requires planning, thought and a good deal of conservative dive execution; I always give that dive a lot of respect

 

[sigxbill]

PADI (rec) Wreck Standards:

Would a PADI professional please share what exactly the standards say about the requirements and limits of penetration are in this class?

Thanks,

 

[boulderjohn]

PADI (rec) Wreck Standards:

Would a PADI professional please share what exactly the standards say about the requirements and limits of penetration are in this class?

Sure--and it isn't all that good. As I reported elsewhere, I had a major debate with a member of PADI's central staff about it this past winter, and I offered alternative wording and standards. They said my wording was "excellent," and they said it will be both incorporated into both those standards and published as an explanation in their professional journal in the future.

The problem lies in two places: what is says and what it doesn't say (but it is assumed you will know on your own).

What It Says
It says that ALL penetration is ALWAYS limited to the light zone (natural light), with no entanglement hazards, and must make use of line being laid to guide the way out. It is as simple as that. No exceptions.

Our conversation started when I sent a link to a video a OW diver had made of a shallow wreck, a video in which he swam through the wide open corner of a wide open boat deck, being in an overhead environment for a few seconds before passing through and going on around the boat. I asked if the diver should have laid line. I then talked about a dive I had just completed with some of the really biggest names in American diving today, a dive in which every one of them did things like that throughout the dive, all apparently violations of the absolute rules stated emphatically in the PADI wreck course.

The reply was that none of those were violations because of what the standards do NOT say (but everybody knows).

What It Does NOT Say
1. "Penetration" ONLY refers to entering and exiting through the same opening. If you enter in one place and exit another, it is a "Swim-through." In all diving, PADI does not consider a "swim-through" to be an overhead environment--it is considered to be open water. The course does not mention swim-throughs, so there is no rule against them.
2. The difficulty level of swim-throughs varies from very simple to more complex. A very simple swim-through can be safely negotiated by a student doing OW training dives--I was quoted the official statement on that. As divers gain more skill through training and/or experience, they can gradually increase the risk level of the swim-through, using good judgment about their own ability and the danger of that swim-through.
3. Penetration limits as described in the course standards are for the beginning wreck diver. Like swim-throughs, as your skills increase, so can the complexity of the penetrations. For example, if you are skilled with light usage while laying line, you can exceed the natural light zone in your diving.
4. In ALL diving, divers need to make a realistic appraisal of their skill development in deciding if they can safely transcend the limits under which they were trained.

My alternative wording summed up all that the course does not say--all four points above.