What do you consider the role & limitations of a mentor?

[ucfdiver]

I'm curious to hear opinions here.

What do you consider the role of a mentor?

• Is it to dive with someone of less experience and allow them to gain experience?
• Is it to give post dive feedback?
• Is it to introduce the person being mentored to new environments they might not go to without some encouragement?

What do you consider the limitations of a mentor?

• Is it OK to take a basic cave diver down a well known jump?
• Is it OK to take a full cave diver scootering?
• Can they give advice that an instructor typically gives (sometimes in direct conflict)?
• Is it OK to take a adv nitrox/deco diver on a 150ft trimix dive after explaining step by step the planning process?

With all the mentors out there who have been tech diving longer than a large portion of tech instructors these days, I think this could bring some interesting debate. I know it gets especially interesting when you mention inactive instructors or pioneers in the sport "teaching". For instance, if Casey McKinlay, Wes Skiles, Brett Hemphill, etc took a basic diver to 1/3rds, is that an issue? Would practicing gas switches on a 20 bottle (and yes, breathing it) before a full cave course for non required deco (think safety stop just for practice) be an issue? Is it OK for someone to be giving critique who's not an instructor?

I especially look forward to hearing instructors opinions.

 

[LiteHedded]

that's a tricky thing. I think I better stay out of this one.

 

[ucfdiver]

that's a tricky thing. I think I better stay out of this one.

You're full cave, it's like getting baptized, all of your previous sins are forgiven!

...Unless you do a visual jump or something. Then you need to go to a NACD board meeting and ask forgiveness from the audience and say a prayer to Sheck.

 

[Capt Jim Wyatt]

I especially look forward to hearing instructors opinions.

See me face to face sometime. No way I would type this all out.

 

[ucfdiver]

See me face to face sometime. No way I would type this all out.

Be glad to Jim, although I believe I know where you stand from a conversation you, Rich, and myself had at CEE one day.

 

[AndyNZ]

I especially look forward to hearing instructors opinions.

Being an instructor isn't like taking a magic pill that means you know the answer to everything and are the only source of knowledge..... though some of us may think that we are.

You've got to think about how diving has developed - when someone started pushing the envelope, there were no instructors to tell them what to do and what not to do.

You could argue that instruction is just the formalisation of the previous generation's experiential learning.

I'm not belittling the value of instruction, I think it's a good thing to get that formalisation. But I'd much rather teach someone who can think for themselves, challenge what I believe to be true and have a good discussion about thorny issues.

There is a line, though. For a start, if a mentor says something that is blatantly wrong (e.g. it's ok to use half a tank going in to a cave) or develops a skill that creates a bad habit (e.g. gas switching without verifying contents and MOD) then it becomes hard work to correct.

Both instructors and experienced mentors need to be careful about encouraging divers into trust me dives.... sure, stretch the rules - but don't break them.

 

[rjack321]

You could argue that instruction is just the formalisation of the previous generation's experiential learning.

Agree. On the one hand you don't want to relearn the hard (sometimes fatal) lessons of the past. But ALOT of diving can't be taught in a course. Locally, I find many divers who don't know how to boat dive. They know how to get on and off a boat, but not to actually take a boat diving and all that entails (everything from finding the site, anchoring, current predictions, shot lines, UW navigation, the whole package).

 

[rjack321]

some thoughts

What do you consider the role of a mentor?

• Is it to dive with someone of less experience and allow them to gain experience? yes
• Is it to give post dive feedback? sure if they want it
• Is it to introduce the person being mentored to new environments they might not go to without some encouragement? yes

What do you consider the limitations of a mentor?

• Is it OK to take a basic cave diver down a well known jump? no way, its not well known to them
• Is it OK to take a full cave diver scootering? yes, in some caves
• Can they give advice that an instructor typically gives (sometimes in direct conflict)? definately
• Is it OK to take a adv nitrox/deco diver on a 150ft trimix dive after explaining step by step the planning process? not a chance

 

[LiteHedded]

i think it depends on the mentor, the protege and the dive
how's that for an answer james?

full disclosure: i did lots of naughty things as an intro diver.

 

[Cave Diver]

I'm curious to hear opinions here.

What do you consider the role of a mentor?

• Is it to dive with someone of less experience and allow them to gain experience?
• Is it to give post dive feedback?
• Is it to introduce the person being mentored to new environments they might not go to without some encouragement?

All of that and more, but that last one can be kind of tricky. We've introduced a few people to Vortex to see if they had an interest in taking cavern or cave courses. Although Vortex is "open" to OW divers up to a certain point, these divers were supervised by two people with O/E training, with redundant air sources (one had a spare air in his d/s pocket... j/k!). They were also told in no uncertain terms that O/E is O/E, even if it does have pretty lights and that this is not something they should be doing on their own without proper training.

It's a fine line between introducing someone to things beyond their training or experience and encouraging them to be stupid.

What do you consider the limitations of a mentor?

• Is it OK to take a basic cave diver down a well known jump?
• Is it OK to take a full cave diver scootering?
• Can they give advice that an instructor typically gives (sometimes in direct conflict)?
• Is it OK to take a adv nitrox/deco diver on a 150ft trimix dive after explaining step by step the planning process?

This is getting a lot trickier. The easy answer is "it depends." I know a few basic/intro cave divers that I would trust on a full cave dive a lot more than some full cave people I've seen. Training is only a small part of the equation. Skill, experience, comfort level, etc. all play a part. I think that a mentor that introduces a protege to more advanced things than their certified for has a responsibility to make it clear what the dangers are and that they should not undertake it without good supervision or proper training.

On that same note, I will only push limits with people that I know and trust and only in 3-man teams, so there are better resources if there is an "Oh schit!" moment.

I've also heard a few instructors give what I thought was incredibly bad advice to divers I know. My reaction was to tell them, "I disagree with that and here is the reason why... You're a certified diver so I can't tell you what to do, but take the information I just gave you and come to your own informed decision."