What defines a "cave"?

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You know, there are really two things about overhead environments that everyone should keep in mind. One is that, once you get in, you have to get out. And the other is that, while you are there, you have to solve any problems you have where you are.

One of the essential ideas of recreational diving is that the surface is always an option. Feel overwhelmed or frightened, or unable to solve a problem? Ascend (hopefully under control and breathing the entire time) and you should be able to make the great gas tank in the sky. In any overhead environment, no matter how trivial, that is not possible. If you're swimming through the big rock arch at Landing Cove on Anacapa (which is about 20 feet long) the period of time that you have to keep your act together is pretty brief; if you are in the Ginnie Ballroom, it's considerably longer -- and that challenge has resulted in at least one death. The Cathedrals off Lanai are spacious rooms with lots of light, a coarse sand bottom, and multiple exits. But a panicked diver in that environment would still be in terrible danger.

Swimming through the wreck of the Rhone in the BVI is fun, and you would have to work very hard to be unable to see your exit. That is not true of all wrecks or caverns, and some silt is truly nasty. Even a very open space can be terrifying, if there is more than one "exit", and some don't lead to open water. There is, somewhere, a chilling account of someone who swam into a huge, open rent in the side of a wreck to look at or for some pots or bottles -- and reduced the viz, and couldn't find his way to the huge opening through which he had come, but instead found a doorway that led deeper into the wreck. He was at the point of writing a goodbye letter to his family, when he gathered some more gumption and found his way out.

Some overheads are pretty benign. But it may not fall within the capacity of an OW diver to evaluate and accurately assess any particular overhead for its particular hazards.
 
So, what do you guys say about the Ballroom at Ginnie Springs? They have it open to OW divers, you know.
 
Anyone remember the panicked diver trapped in the air bell at Blue Grotto?
 
So in your opinion, it's perfectly okay for a brand new OW diver to go into overhead environments with absolutely no training beyond OW class?

Firstly; it does not really matter what my opinion is, when compared to reality. I train OW students "expecting" them to go into overheads and deep very soon after becoming certified divers; because that is what I see brand new OW divers doing, every day of the year.

Secondly; every dive operator I have worked for as an instructor/guide in Hawaii has "sold" guided dives into caverns and lava tubes for "certified" divers. That is nearly 10 years of guiding brand new OW divers into overhead environments with absolutely no training beyond OW class for; a dive shop with a boat that also does a lot of shore diving, a multiple resort location shore operator, a boat operator that also had a separate two resort shore operation (now one resort), a one resort shore operator and a boat operator that also does a lot of shore diving.

Every other dive operator I could work for in Hawaii "sells" guided dives into caverns and lava tubes to "certified" divers; and pretty much every dive boat in Hawaii that visits a wreck dive site, the instructor/guide does at least a minor penetration of said wreck (except the Carthaginian and single seat planes & tanks).

I have never even heard through the grapevine of any serious injury or death to a customer on any Hawaii instructor guided dive into overhead environs, ever. :dontknow:
 
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Agencies have ways of defining caves. Some involve daylight, total distance to the surface, etc..

Personally, I imagine a cave is kinda like pornography. I can't necessarily define it, but I'll know it when I see one (or more poignantly am in one and have to get out).
 
Oahu dive sites like Sea Cave, Makaha Caverns, and some of the lava tubes at Shark's Cove, while technically Overhead Environments, don't concern me as much by the lack of dead scuba divers in those places.

Here is the flaw I find with this reasoning. OW divers don't know what they don't know. They don't know the difference between a benign cave and dangerous one. They have a dive leader taking them through swim throughs and tunnels in Mexico or wherever and every thing is ok, and so that's the impression they have of all caves. Then they find themselves in Florida or somewhere and decide to take a peek into one of those caves.

What can it hurt? They've already been in one. It's no big deal, right?
 
halemanō;5807906:
Firstly; it does not really matter what my opinion is, when compared to reality. I train OW students "expecting" them to go into overheads and deep very soon after becoming certified divers; because that is what I see brand new OW divers doing, every day of the year.


I am curious as to your teaching methodology in which you train OW students with the expectation that they will go into overheads very soon after becoming certified divers.
 

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