What defines a "cave"?

[Dive-aholic]

Do you consider rock on 3 sides (overhead, and to your left and right) a cavern, even if it's only around 20' in length (from entry point to exit point)?

Just curious on your definition for my own knowledge.

That's not enough information. It's at a minimum a swim through. Either way, it's an overhead environment.

Well how much would I have to pay for a cavern class?

It depends. Most instructors charge $300-400.

 

[TSandM]

There is a very scary story (can't remember where I read it) about a fellow who went into a small room in a rock wall, thinking he couldn't possibly get into any trouble -- only he silted the space out and couldn't find the entrance to get out, and he scared himself very badly.

I'm not a purist -- I have swum through wrecks like the Rhone before I had cave training, and I have gone into big cargo holds without a line. But I have a profound respect for Florida silt (thank you, Dive-aholic!) and I'd view any overhead there as potentially dangerous without training.

 

[Rhone Man]

If it scares me... it's a cave.

 

[Rhone Man]

There is a very scary story (can't remember where I read it) about a fellow who went into a small room in a rock wall, thinking he couldn't possibly get into any trouble -- only he silted the space out and couldn't find the entrance to get out, and he scared himself very badly.

Not sure if it is the same story, but I was chatting with one of the Cave Instructors in DR. He had a friend out visiting him who was just a regular diver, and he thought for the hell of it they would just "duck inside" one of the local caves, figuring he was a Cave Instructor, they are only a few feet in, what is the worst that can happen?

Well the friend does one bad fin kick near the bottom in about three seconds it is so silted to hell they cannot see anything. The instructor said he just gave up his friend for dead and focused on trying to get to a wall and work his way around to where he thought the exit must be. Fortunately his friend had the presence of mind to do the same, they both did in fact find the exit, and no one died.

He told me that as he swam away with his heart hammering in his chest he vowed that no matter how good he thought he was (i) he would never go any distance into a cave without a line again, and (ii) he would never take someone in who wasn't trained or in training. You could say he bloody well ought to have known that before then as a Cave Instructor, but some lessons are more indelible than others.

Yet another reason why I won't go into caves.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

Well how much would I have to pay for a cavern class?

To me this is simple, what is your life worth?

 

[dadediver]

To me this is simple, what is your life worth?

I see that you keep saying this. My life to me is worth a lot. But I am not going to second mortage my house to pay for a cave course.

I think the question should be answered with what is the average going rate for a cave class. Not what is you life worth.

 

[TSandM]

Yes -- you can make the decision to take a cave class, or you can simply decide not to dive in caves. One is much cheaper than the other.

 

[SoccerJeni]

The GUE Cave manual defines a cave:

"...the region within any over head environment that: 1) is not illuminated by natural sunlight, 2) is more than 130 linear feet from the water surface, 3) is more than 70 feet deep, 4) will require decompression after exiting, 5) must be accessed by passing through a restriction that will not permit two divers to pass through side-by-side, OR 6) contains water with less than 40 feet of visibility." Any overhead environment with any of these criteria should be considered a cave, whether a wreck, cavern, quarry, or mineshaft.

Best,
-Graham

That's not enough information. It's at a minimum a swim through. Either way, it's an overhead environment.

The place I'm talking about is about 20' underwater, is illuminated by overhead and underwater artifical lighting, no decompression required, and divers can pass through side by side, and has greater visibility than 40'. I'm trying to keep this generic as possible. I don't want to stir any pots. I'm just curious for my own knowledge, as I find it's important for me to have as much info as possible about where I go diving and to be safe.

According to GUE this would not be a Cave. So I'm unsure if this would need additional training or not.

 

[copter53]

Well, actually the reason I asked about the price is that well....my life's not worth that much really. So I will have to seriously consider if the price of the cavern class is worth my life.

 

[Tortuga68]

The place I'm talking about is about 20' underwater, is illuminated by overhead and underwater artifical lighting, no decompression required, and divers can pass through side by side, and has greater visibility than 40'

Not sure if you mean 'artificial overhead and artificial underwater lighting', or 'natural overhead and artificial underwater lighting'?

Either way, it could still 'become' a cave (if it doesn't meet the definition already) due to silting, sunset, cloud or other obscuring of the natural light (if there is natural light to start with)