Whaling: Right or Wrong?

[drbill]

Humuhumunukunukuapua'a if global worming is killing them than get rid of you 40+ SUV or gas guzzlers car.

i have 2 trucks. one only gets 10mpg at its best. and my other get about 17mpg.

O-NO im killing the whales

O you should see what my other hobbies is. 4x4 in forests that kill bald eagles breading areas. US country boys know how to have fun. man i hate the people that try to stop out 4 wheeling areas because it ruins the natural water supply to the rivers with extra mud and engine oils. lol

Caveman... you're rapidly losing any credibility you might have had with nonsense like this. I tried to be generous previously, but this really is pure, unbridled ignorance.

And, despite the fact that I've been a scientist and an environmentalist for nearly 40 years, I can rebuild engines too, although it wasn't due to my Ph.D. degree.

 

[tangfish]

"I bet they tast good. at least there being used as food. people been doing it for hundreds of years and the whales are still here"

"i do not have the best spelling and English skill. so F-OFF. And i did go to collage."

What a hick. Would someone (mods) please ban this guy? There's something to be said for disagreeing and having a right to an opinion, but has this guy said a single thing that has added any value to the discussion, for anyone? I can't believe natural selection let this one through.

 

[drbill]

I'm very serious about my posts.

My point is that if you want OTHERS to take them seriously you might consider how you write them. Of course one of my favorite thinkers (Edward F. "Doc" Ricketts of Cannery Row) wrote miserably and needed the likes of John Steinbeck to make his thoughts more understandable to the rest of the world.

 

[Humuhumunukunukuapua'a]

Humuhumunukunukuapua'a if global worming is killing them than get rid of you 40+ SUV or gas guzzlers car.

i have 2 trucks. one only gets 10mpg at its best. and my other get about 17mpg.

O-NO im killing the whales

O you should see what my other hobbies is. 4x4 in forests that kill bald eagles breading areas. US country boys know how to have fun. man i hate the people that try to stop out 4 wheeling areas because it ruins the natural water supply to the rivers with extra mud and engine oils. lol

Is it just me or do CaveMan's ignorant ramblings meant to rub his gluttonous, selfish habits in the face of everyone really tend to serve the opposition argument more?

How is this (or any of your last half dozen or so posts) on topic?

Look, dude, we GET it. You're a redneck and you don't care about anyone but yourself. You don't care about the water you or your family drinks, or the world they live in. You don't care whether you grandkids will even be able to drive a car. That's just swell.

But while it illustrates that they don't teach you much in mechanic's school, it doesn't have a lot to do with whales. Even gangrel is trying to tell you that you're in the wrong mouthing off about your destructive tendencies (my guess is he'd rather you stop trying to associate with him, since he's well spoken and argues his points in a logical, rational manner, all disagreements aside).

Seriously...you're getting into a us vs. them mentality and it doesn't serve the discussion at all. Go find another board to bash the "hippiz and inveromentalists".

 

[vondo]

If we allow Minkes to be hunted in the numbers that are taken by Japan, they will be able to sustain their population and will not likely disappear or become endangered.

Just to make a counter point, by allowing a limited amount of taking, we make it trendy, which means that if the caps ever were to come off, all hell could break loose.

An earth-bound example: There is an international ivory ban to protect elephants. There is still some poaching and from catching these poachers, African governments have a lot of warehoused ivory. Some would like to sell this ivory and maybe the proceeds would even be used to protect elephants. But if makes ivory trendy again and everyone wants a piano with ivory instead of plastic keys, is that really good for the elephants?

Whale meat is very expensive in Japan and a lot of what is sold as whale is not whale. Is it expensive because it is so good or because it is hard to get? If they take 1000 Minke this year, why not 2000 next year to satisfy the demand?

I don't pretend to know the answers to any of this, but the question is a lot more complex than "If it's only 1000 out of million, what's wrong with that."

 

[gangrel441]

Even gangrel is trying to tell you that you're in the wrong mouthing off about your destructive tendencies (my guess is he'd rather you stop trying to associate with him, since he's well spoken and argues his points in a logical, rational manner, all disagreements aside).

Thank you for acknowledging that. Now...can we get back to arguing about whales?

 

[H2Andy]

Whales ... are going away because of overhunting/habitat destruction.

there is no more hunting of endangered whales going on; hasn't for
a while now.

whales are not in danger of over-hunting for the simple reason that no one
except for the Japanese, the Icelanders, and the Norwegians is going
after them, and then only after the minke, for about 2,200 specimens to be
taken. that out of a total population of (a conservative) 700,000 does not
constitute "over hunting."

as to habitat destruction, global warming is a big issue, yes. in fact, it's
the real issue.

this "whale hunting" is a p.r. thing... it sounds good, a noble cause, stop
the slaughter of the whales... it's just p.r. you're being played.

now, even for a good cause, i don't like to be played.

 

[gangrel441]

NO it's not their right. They aren't hunting in Japanese waters, and those aren't Japanese whales. They are the world's whales and Japan has no right to them.

That is an emotional argument. Emotional arguments get people's feelings into the issue, but they do very little to prove any case. The Japanese whalers are hunting by treaty, and they are taking what they are allowed to take.

Allow me to state once again, I love whales, all whales, and do not like whaling. However, the facts that I have seen support that Japan is not damaging the overall population of Minkes, and Minkes are neither endangered nor in danger of becoming endangered. They are using a loophole in international laws and treaties, but they are not breaking them. There are much more pressing issues and species in much greater danger than Minke whales.

 

[Humuhumunukunukuapua'a]

whales are not in danger of over-hunting for the simple reason that no one
except for the Japanese, the Icelanders, and the Norwegians is going
after them, and then only after the minke, for about 2,200 specimens to be
taken.

They are also taking Fin whales and next year plan to take Humpbacks.

this "whale hunting" is a p.r. thing... it sounds good, a noble cause, stop
the slaughter of the whales... it's just p.r. you're being played.

now, even for a good cause, i don't like to be played.

Or maybe you're being played by the proposition that killing several thousand whales every year is sustainable. I hope you agree that's not a universally shared opinion in the scientific community.

I can't think of a single industrialized harvest of a natural resource that has not resulted in massive overharvest of said resource. Why would the tendency be any different with Minke whales? Japan would love to kill more if they could. Where do you draw the line?

 

[gangrel441]

Just to make a counter point, by allowing a limited amount of taking, we make it trendy, which means that if the caps ever were to come off, all hell could break loose.

An earth-bound example: There is an international ivory ban to protect elephants. There is still some poaching and from catching these poachers, African governments have a lot of warehoused ivory. Some would like to sell this ivory and maybe the proceeds would even be used to protect elephants. But if makes ivory trendy again and everyone wants a piano with ivory instead of plastic keys, is that really good for the elephants?

Whale meat is very expensive in Japan and a lot of what is sold as whale is not whale. Is it expensive because it is so good or because it is hard to get? If they take 1000 Minke this year, why not 2000 next year to satisfy the demand?

I don't pretend to know the answers to any of this, but the question is a lot more complex than "If it's only 1000 out of million, what's wrong with that."

This is a good point. However, in this case, opening the market to the African wildlife agencies and governments to sell ivory would create a new, legal market for ivory. Once that market is opened, it would be much harder to distinguish between ivory obtained legally through conficsation and ivory obtained illegally through poaching. This would encourage poachers, creating a bigger problem.

In the case of Minke whales, the whales are not being poached. They are being obtained legally, dubious though it may be. I don't think there is any danger of the bag limits being increased dramatically or lifted, and there is so much distaste for whaling in the areas of the world other than the countries that currently hunt them. Does anyone know of any significant poaching problem with Minke or other species of whales? I do not.