Whaling could it start again?

[fgray1]

I'm impressed !! (and that's not easy to do.)
Congrates to you guy for a civil conversation about whale hunting.

 

[drbill]

Who really has the moral high ground here? When we had to kill thousands of feral goats on Catalina to protect the native and endemic species, our efforts were considered barbaric by animal rights people.

I tried to point out to them that we all make choices as to what species will be killed whether we do it directly by swatting a fly or a mosquito, or we do it indirectly by purchasing pork or chicken raised on those large commercial farms which destroyed native habitat and species.

I don't believe any of us can truly take the moral high ground on this issue. We all kill. We all make decisions which species we are willing to kill or let die to feed ourselves, to build our homes and when our activities pollute our streams.

People usually object most violently to the killing of species which are closest to us evolutionarily (mammals- dolphins, whales, etc.) or are used as pets (feral cats, wild dogs). I don't usually see people protesting the killing of brittle stars, sea cucumbers and other invertebrates, yet they too are life forms.

Of course I do have personal objections to the needless killing of whales and dolpins... as well as invertebrates and even plants. However, we must all become more aware of our personal choices and how they impact a wide range of other species.

Dr. Bill

PS- Hmm, a pretty satisfying post for #2,000.

 

[drbill]

A further note- KOMPRESSOR's point about urban residents often protesting such hunting and other conservation issues is an important and interesting one in my opinion. When I was a high school teacher, with students from upper-middle and upper class urban backgrounds, we made a point of having them actually hunt or fish for some of the food we fed them at the school. My desire was to make them realize the living source of much of their sustenance. Vegetarians also grew their own vegetables. These links with the natural world are being lost my modern technological cultures as they continue to urbanize. I live here on Catalina because I could survive here without the Vons grocery store. Much harder in Torrance, Garden Grove, or...

Dr. Bill

 

[DORSETBOY]

fair point Drbill, and you're right, like a lot of people I personally find it difficult to seperate my emotional attatchment toward whales from a purely scientific stand point.

 

[Mako Mark]

-What's this? Playing with a creature and then letting it go, for no other purpose than having a bit of fun with it?

-What's next? Moosehunting with paintball markers?!

.

:lol:


I love this guy..

Hey Kompressor, a mate of mine had one of the Tshirts

 

[Dragon2115]

-What's next? Moosehunting with paintball markers?!

That would be awesome. Of course you'd better wear your running shoes. Now that would make it on TV's Funniest Home Videos.

Personally I have no problem with catch and release when fishing. In fact I usually close the barb of the hook just to give the fish that much more chance to slip the hook. I also don't use bait unless I'm fishing for dinner. With lure the fish doesn't get the chance to swallow the hook as easily. In the long run this may be what puts a little more wariness into the fishes life that makes it survive to be a big fish.

 

[erichK]

fair point Drbill, and you're right, like a lot of people I personally find it difficult to seperate my emotional attatchment toward whales from a purely scientific stand point.

Whales are not a "resource". And there is nothing "unscientific" abotu feeling an attachment to such fairly intelligent beings. Most of us could not stomach the idea of killing and eating a gorilla or a chimpanzee, likely because it would seem very much like cannibalism. And for good reason: we share over 95% of the same genes. Whales and dolphins and also such creatures as elephants or dogs are much more genetically divergent from us. But because we recognize them to possess significant degrees intelligence as fun creatures to hunt and kill and variety foods for our consumption. Even more disturbingly, some of these creatures seem to possess, or at least be able to learn language, art, the use of tools, etc...and also to clearly have emotions, families and some forms of social structure.

It is amazing that while no really scientific thinker could today possibly accept the basic Cartesian fallacy: that all other "animals" are mere mechanisms while "human beings" are uniquely possessed of a mind (and soul, to those who believe in one) we continue to make endless use of it to justify our continuing slaughter.

I do eat meat, have had to kill animals on occasion and do not hold myself up as any kind of paragon. At the same time, I do try to minimize the slaughter, by, at the very least, not thinking of other living beings as a resource (as "long pig" surely was to some of our species at some points in our history). Increasingly, the evidence of anthropology and paleontology is suggesting that human cultures have, time and again, devastated their entire ecosystems. Likely in large part by simply seeing what they wanted to exploit and consume as a resource, rather than a fragile and perhaps critical part of much larger interdependent systems.

 

[KOMPRESSOR]

>...Whales are not a "resource"....<

I think you should add this is YOUR opinion to this sentence, not just state it as a fact. For many people whales are just that, a resource. One shouldn't waste one's resources. Therefore I'm against exploiting nature when species are endangered or the environment is in danger of being destroyed. Humans have done their best to exploit their resources to the fullest up through the years. We have a lot to learn still. But in my opinion a healthy whale population may very well be considered a resource, as whale meat is a very healthy food source and even taste good.

This is MY opinion. If you think I'm worse than a cannibal, so be it. But then if you do, it says more about you than about me.

 

[fgray1]

"Most of us could not stomach the idea of killing and eating a gorilla or a chimpanzee, likely because it would seem very much like cannibalism. And for good reason: we share over 95% of the same genes. "
Above stated by erichK.

Chimps are mean and nasty creatures. They will kill and eat anything. We give them human traits they don't have them naturally. They are CANNIBALS as well as thrill killers.
many animals kill just for the fun of it. We are the ones that try to hide it for them. Like ErichK who wants to place them up on the pedestal with us. There is only room at the top for one species and for this moment in time it's us.
Oh buy the way Chimps and gorillas are a resource. We use them as a resource everyday.
We just don't use them for a food resource. Welcome to the real world

 

[cdiver2]

"Most of us could not stomach the idea of killing and eating a gorilla or a chimpanzee, likely because it would seem very much like cannibalism. And for good reason: we share over 95% of the same genes. "
Above stated by erichK.

Chimps are mean and nasty creatures. They will kill and eat anything. We give them human traits they don't have them naturally. They are CANNIBALS as well as thrill killers.
many animals kill just for the fun of it. We are the ones that try to hide it for them. Like ErichK who wants to place them up on the pedestal with us. There is only room at the top for one species and for this moment in time it's us.
Oh buy the way Chimps and gorillas are a resource. We use them as a resource everyday.
We just don't use them for a food resource. Welcome to the real world

with you on this one. The only creature that kills for pleasure on this planet is man