Whaling could it start again?

[KOMPRESSOR]

You gotta love Norwegians....

You know you can get a T-shirt in Norway that says Kill Willy.

No I don't know this, and I live here. How do you know, and where do you live?

I know most péople on the board highly object to whaling from a moral sence, I can only object from a resource management sence as I have never seen any whaling in progress so I cant comment on the pain and suffering, but In Norway, whaling is a tradition and whale meat a traditional food.

At least they stand up for what they believe in and have a sense of humor about it. Its part of what makes them Vikings.

I can assure you we are quite updated regarding resource management. The minute the number of whales should decrease, the government will put their hands in between.

Pain and suffering is certainly subject to discussion over here also. Don't go around thinking we don't care. However, technology has made its progress even here. When hit it's over pretty fast. Tecnology from the military weapons industry.

I'm an active hunter myself (Not whales!), up in the mountains and also in the sea. I'm also into fishing. I would NEVER catch something just for fun without even having a wish for a great meal. Have you ever heard about catch and release? SPORTSfishing... Now that's pretty discusting. playing with live fish and then release it again. I hope you agree to this!

 

[DORSETBOY]

Please stick to subjects you know something about.

thanks, that's exactly what Im doing as a qualified marine biologist. Perhaps you might like to ask first before making silly comments.

 

[cdiver2]

thanks, that's exactly what Im doing as a qualified marine biologist. Perhaps you might like to ask first before making silly comments.

ROFL

 

[KOMPRESSOR]

thanks, that's exactly what Im doing as a qualified marine biologist. Perhaps you might like to ask first before making silly comments.

Well then I'm asking: have you been aboard a whaling vessel lately? Have you seen the newest weapons they use for catching whales?

If you had you would know these are very efficient weapons that effectively kill the whale with an explosive device specially produced by the military arms industry for this purpose.

My guess is you may have been a qualified marine biologist in other fields than the whaling industry. I'm sure you have great feelings for these imense creatures. But please stick to facts, and don't missuse your "status" as a marine biologist by lying.

 

[archman]

Well then I'm asking: have you been aboard a whaling vessel lately? Have you seen the newest weapons they use for catching whales?

If you had you would know these are very efficient weapons that effectively kill the whale with an explosive device specially produced by the military arms industry for this purpose.

Those "efficient weapons" only apply towards larger species, usually in excess of 8 tons. Explosive-tipped harpoons are rarely used on smaller critters, like the pilots and narwhals. I wouldn't call them "new" either; the technology's been around for nearly a century, and in widespread use for nearly as long. It's the advent of those very devices that accelerated the demise of commercial stocks worldwide. They were simply too effective.

Even explosive-tipped harpoons are argued as being unnecessarily cruel. If the warhead misses the brain, it might take well over a minute for the animal to die.

 

[KOMPRESSOR]

Those "efficient weapons" only apply towards larger species, usually in excess of 8 tons. Explosive-tipped harpoons are rarely used on smaller critters, like the pilots and narwhals. I wouldn't call them "new" either; the technology's been around for nearly a century, and in widespread use for nearly as long. It's the advent of those very devices that accelerated the demise of commercial stocks worldwide. They were simply too effective.

Even explosive-tipped harpoons are argued as being unnecessarily cruel. If the warhead misses the brain, it might take well over a minute for the animal to die.

I will only answer for the norwegian methods of whalecatching, ok? The
only legal way here is with the explosive device. And for the biologist who thinks the whales ar butchered before they are dead, with EVERY whaleboat theres a government official who would document any mistakes and breaking of the rules for catching.

If you are aiming at the methods of the Alaska indians or the eskimos of Greeland you could be right, but their whalecatching is non of our business as it is part of their survival.

If you think the "warhead" has to hit the whale's brain to be effective you've misunderstood the method. They're not aiming for the brain since it is enough to hit any of the huge bloodvessels in the centre of the body to cause a trauma that will kill the whale immideately. Pretty much like beeing hit by a high velocity bullet in an arteria. The instant pressure will spread through you vains up to your heart and brain - lights out.

 

[archman]

If you think the "warhead" has to hit the whale's brain to be effective you've misunderstood the method. They're not aiming for the brain since it is enough to hit any of the huge bloodvessels in the centre of the body to cause a trauma that will kill the whale immideately. Pretty much like beeing hit by a high velocity bullet in an arteria. The instant pressure will spread through you vains up to your heart and brain - lights out.

You're correct. I was thinking about sharks for some reason. Dumb.

Norway seems to get a lot of fire regarding their whaling, since they're one of the few remaining countries with a commercial fishery. But their own local minke stocks appear to be stable, and that's the primary fished species nowadays. On the other hand, the minke quota was jacked up significantly this year.

The International Whaling Commission tends to put forth a resolution nearly every year asking Norway to stop whaling. There is intense pressure from the majority of member nations to halt all whaling for animal welfare purposes. Despite Norway's rather exemplary record regarding humane dispatch of their minkes, it's still killing a whale, and most members of the public don't like that. I believe the last commission meeting actually passed a resolution to address animal cruelty concerns. I'm not sure if there were any meaningful guidelines for the resolution, however.

 

[KOMPRESSOR]

You're correct. I was thinking about sharks for some reason. Dumb.

Norway seems to get a lot of fire regarding their whaling, since they're one of the few remaining countries with a commercial fishery. But their own local minke stocks appear to be stable, and that's the primary fished species nowadays. On the other hand, the minke quota was jacked up significantly this year.

The International Whaling Commission tends to put forth a resolution nearly every year asking Norway to stop whaling. There is intense pressure from the majority of member nations to halt all whaling for animal welfare purposes. Despite Norway's rather exemplary record regarding humane dispatch of their minkes, it's still killing a whale, and most members of the public don't like that. I believe the last commission meeting actually passed a resolution to address animal cruelty concerns. I'm not sure if there were any meaningful guidelines for the resolution, however.

Well, I don't have a problem killing an animal if it's for food. We are raising cattle and pigs for this purpose, and if one should put in an effort against animal cruelty, one should look at how to raise the quality of life for stock animals.

I go bird hunting regularly and would go deer hunting any day of the season if I could, as long as I'm certain I could use the meat. I'm also into fishing and UW-hunting. We use all the fish, seafood and meat in our regular household. We live in the countryside, and this is a very common practice. Anyone may disagree with my hunting and fishing but that will not change anything for me. And I certainly enjoy my meals more when I know the animal lived a free and natural life, and wasn't PRODUCED only to be slaughtered.

I feel a lot of very urbanized people take a stand without knowing the facts. I think they would see it differently if they lived our lives. Take the common "catch and release sports fishing" praticed in the US and GB. -What's this? Playing with a creature and then letting it go, for no other purpose than having a bit of fun with it? Now there's something we norwegians have a strong point of vue about. Do you catch my drift here? When I go fishing, I stop the very minute I cannot preserve my catch for food purposes. And I certainly try to preserve all of my catch.

-What's next? Moosehunting with paintball markers?!

Norwegain whalecatching is not inhumane. The northern minkwhale population is growing steadily, despite the catching. But if you want to have a pet, get yourself a cat.

 

[DORSETBOY]

don't missuse your "status" as a marine biologist by lying.

:11:

http://www.iwcoffice.org/commission/iwcmain.htm#conservation

Basically it's very very simple. There is a worldwide consensus that the information supplied on stock levels is not enough to make a decision on whether whale populations can support harvesting. The countries that disagree happen to be the ones such as Japan or Norway who want to resume whaling as it has been part of their culture for a long period of time, or those poorer countries on the iwc board that many people have alleged are having their votes bought by Japanese financial aid.

Obviously, as I have a scientific and yes I'll admit ethical objection on several fronts to whaling Im not likely to be invited onto a whaling ship.

 

[archman]

There is a worldwide consensus that the information supplied on stock levels is not enough to make a decision on whether whale populations can support harvesting. The countries that disagree happen to be the ones such as Japan or Norway who want to resume whaling as it has been part of their culture for a long period of time, or those poorer countries on the iwc board that many people have alleged are having their votes bought by Japanese financial aid.

As I have more of a resource management than marine mammal background, I get rather suspicious reading the IWC reports sometimes. Their conclusions smack rather of stall tactics, regarding "sufficient information" for population estimates. For species like minkes, worldwide consensus is anything but. The IWC's own estimates show several hundred thousand of the animals swimming about, maybe over a million. Even allowing for ludicrous overreporting, Norway's annual catch (which I think now is well under a thousand) would constitute a drop in the proverbial bucket. And Norway constitutes the major commercial fishery worldwide.

As much as I like whale biologists (I know a few), I have yet to meet a single one that did not emotionally detach themselves from their animals. This makes them sometimes very difficult to work with. I would very much like to meet a whale biologist from Norway or Japan, and compare their ideologies. Often talking to american whale biologists is like talking to a brick wall; most refuse to consider whaling under any circumstances, science or no science to back them up. Ugh.

If a fish biologist looked at the "questionable" minke data, he'd be on very shaky ground indeed trying to rule out damages due to such limited harvesting. Even the North Atlantic stocks are pretty dang high. Minkes certainly aren't rare.

Looking further at IWC's stock assessments, limited catches for finbacked whales would probably be feasible as well.

As whale stocks continue to improve, of course it'll be harder to rationalize protecting them due to economic concerns. It will be up to the nations that are concerned over animal welfare and not fishery status to convince the world that whaling is "bad". And that's more of an emotional argument than a scientific one. It will be interesting to watch how this plays out the next few years. It will likely get uglier. Minke stocks represent one of the few fishery species that aren't going down the toilet, and will become increasingly enticing for countries that have to feed their populations, if only on the small-scale.