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Wet Rocks, Wet Schmocks! Class report UTD Cave 1 & 2

Discussion in 'Technical Diving' started by leabre, Nov 6, 2011.

  1. Lobzilla

    Lobzilla Contributor

    # of Dives: 100 - 199
    Location: North Carolina, Maryland
    673
    168
    @Andrew

    FWIW, I know that James' sentiment is shared by many DIR aficionados; that UTD initially provided a viable alternative or addition to GUE and then -sadly- went off the cliff with marketing immature or ill conceived products.

    As far as your drive to innovate and educate is concerned, it should be noted that the DIR philosophy, its procedures and gear had already matured to reliability and robustness BEFORE it was pushed into the OW world.
    The worst mistake any innovator can make is to go to market too early. It is easy to fix a flaw among a small circle of beta testers but after full release every necessary fix inflicts tremendous cost on profit margins and/or reputation.

    @James

    What does the cited accident have to do with a closed isolator during training? These guys seem to have sealed their fate with many other mistakes. If anything, this accident proves that their awareness of existing (but temporarily inaccessible) gas resources was not emphasized enough in training.
    Let's suppose that I ever make it into cave1 and I swim around with a closed isolator for whatever reason. Let's further assume that my team and I fail to identify this problem (via SPG checks *) during the very long time it takes to drain one tank. In this case, I think a vivid reminder that sloppiness kills is warranted. I would even allow an instructor to mess with me by secretly closing my isolator - but that is just me and I can understand if an agency discourages this practice.

    (* Note: if anyone is breathing from the left post, a closed isolator is not going to be revealed by a seemingly "stuck" SPG. Maybe we should do a full flow check not just after drills or ceiling contact but also before using the backup regulator for an extended period of time)
     
  2. PfcAJ

    PfcAJ Contributor

    # of Dives: 5,000 - ∞
    Location: St Petersburg, Fl
    8,009
    7,518
    I believe that allowing students to spend a considerable amount of time in an overhead environment with valves closed is a bad idea. Its still real cave diving. Imo, after the shutdown is complete, the instructor should return the valves to an open condition, affording all available gas to the diver.
     
  3. amascuba

    amascuba Instructor, Scuba

    # of Dives: 500 - 999
    Location: Austin, TX
    2,246
    36
    I was there. I can say for a fact that nobody ran out of gas. Nor did anybody donate a long hose that was turned off. We do, after all, donate what we are breathing, so that would have been an easy catch. Any time we had a similated post or manifold failure, Ela would turn on any posts that we had turned off while we were exiting the cave. Is this enough clarification?
     
  4. Lobzilla

    Lobzilla Contributor

    # of Dives: 100 - 199
    Location: North Carolina, Maryland
    673
    168
    I agree from the safety perspective and with respect to the liability of the agency and the instructor.

    That leaves me as the student with the problem who is going to give my brain a whack when it decides to repeatedly ignore something of importance. I am talking about those few pesky items that persistently slip through the grasp of our consciousness.

    Due to my lack of cave training let me use an OW example: I have a really hard time remembering to stuff the light cord after clipping off the primary light. It will probably take me several month of concentrated effort (to the detriment of working on other issues) to get that "wired" into my brain reliably. If you would tie that loose cord to something just before I am going to blast off with a scooter, my brain would rewire immediately. When we have the "Oh sh$t" look on our face we are extremely receptive to behavior modification.
     
  5. Rainer

    Rainer Contributor

    6,031
    592
    But she'd leave the isolator closed?

    [Not judging; just curious.]
     
  6. Lobzilla

    Lobzilla Contributor

    # of Dives: 100 - 199
    Location: North Carolina, Maryland
    673
    168
  7. ucfdiver

    ucfdiver Contributor

    # of Dives: 500 - 999
    Location: Orlando, FL
    3,338
    501
    So are you saying she did not turn the isolator back on, or the team did not do a valve check predive?

    Somehow a diver was swimming around with a closed valve...
     
  8. limeyx

    limeyx Guest

    3,054
    46
    Without making a statement about this particular event (since I wasn't there), in both my classes with "The other DIR agency" it was stated very clearly that the instructor would TRY to turn on any closed valves after a scenario but it was not always possible to do so on all occasions and we needed to be aware of that.
     
  9. Rainer

    Rainer Contributor

    6,031
    592
    Same as I was told in my "other DIR agency" class as well. That was in open water, though, so we definitely never went far / long enough with a closed isolator to actually drain a cylinder.

    In this case, directed to those who were there, any idea how long the isolator was closed before the left cylinder was emptied?

     
  10. PfcAJ

    PfcAJ Contributor

    # of Dives: 5,000 - ∞
    Location: St Petersburg, Fl
    8,009
    7,518
    Edited. Too sarcastic.
     

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