weight placement?!?

[JeffG]

Jeff, you're not helping me want to strap those twins on.... LOL!

Try my 130's one day. That will convince you not to use them.

Plus...they are one of the most unbalanced rigs you could dive. If I had a catastrophic wing failure with those puppies I would have to walk to my exit.

 

[PerroneFord]

Perroneford, IMHO, the idea is to have a little bit of ditchable weight. Enough so you can swim yourself up, but not out-of-control... pants does have a point of accident prevention. I was taught to have (very little) ditchable weight - I use an aluminum tank as well. The idea about less ditachable weights, rather than all of them, is to help with the bubbles coming out of solution. From what you were taught, it's better to deal with the problem on the surface, so ditch all of your weight - right? You can decide for yourself what you prefer...

Hope this helps.

Actually,

My PADI OW instructor was pretty good about telling us to fix problems under water, but the instruction itself didn't really show us how. After paying more attention to diving information over the past few years, and specifically to GUE over the past few months, I am beginning to understand more about the idea of ditchable weight. However, GUE (from what I understand) still advocates having ditchable weight. Maybe not 30 pounds of it, but still some. The Halcyon ACB setup speaks to this. The Dress for Success, and JJ's book also speak to this. The recent training materials from PADI and SSI also speak to this. This is what puzzled me about the "never" statement.

I hope to take some GUE training in the near future as I feel given what I have seen and read, they do try to offer thorough instruction at the risk of high failure rates. I'd rather fail a course and learn, than pass and feel cheated. As much as I hate to say it, my PADI OW, taken many years ago, left me wanting a bit.

This board has been a marvelous resource in hearing different opinions and ways of doing things. And discussions like this make it incredibly valuable for me.

Thanks to you all.

 

[PerroneFord]

The only time weight should ever be ditched is if you find yourself far from shore/the boat and are having difficulty swimming, or when rescuing an unconscious diver. Weight should only be used to compensate for the natural buoyancy of you and your gear. You never want to wear so much weight that you have to add air to compensate for the weight.

I understand what you are saying here. But your setup is quite different than that of a basic OW diver.

For the person diving a single AL80, particularly in chilly water, and with a 5mil or 7mil suit, and with a jacket based BC, this is rather hard.

You need to offset the 3-4 pounds positive buoyancy of that tank at 500psi, you need to offset the buoyancy of the 7mil suit, and that of the diver himself or herself. When I did my OW cert dive, I was in a spring, in November. Wearing a 7mil farmer, with an AL80, and a fairly heavy weightbelt. Probably somewhere around 15-20 pounds. On my surface swim out, I found my BC had a leak. Some 25 yards into the swim, I had 20 pounds of lead on me during a surface swim and another 30 pounds with the cylinder. And I then had to swim it back. I thought very hard about dropping that weight belt as I had what felt like the hand of God pulling me under the water!

But if I had been at 30 feet, and lost the BC bladder 10 minutes into the dive, would I have been wrong to drop the belt? The buoyancy swing when diving aluminum tanks wet, is clearly greater than diving steel dry. And it would seem to dictate slightly different measures in emergency of difficult situations.

Again, thanks for all responses.

 

[MaxBottomtime]

I had to use a single aluminum 80 last weekend for the first time in more than ten years. They should outlaw those tanks.

 

[PerroneFord]

I had to use a single aluminum 80 last weekend for the first time in more than ten years. They should outlaw those tanks.

I hear they make nice ocean doubles.

 

[aquaoren]

You are asking me for hypothetical situations. I am a new diver and very inexperienced. I was simply asking for clarification on something given as an absoulte that was contrary to my instruction (PADI OW) and other instruction I have seen (SSI DIR).

Given what I have *read*, it seems that if one is perhaps caught in a downcurrent from which they cannot easily overcome, if one is diving wet and has a bladder failure early in the dive when the tank(s) are full or nearly full, etc., these might be good times to reduce ballast to assist with getting to the surface or at least maintaining a neutral buoyancy.

While the diver might well have done something wrong, this is not a rare occurance in our sport as even very experienced divers find opportunity to have to shed weight. Were this not true, it would seem silly to carry a weightbelt at all as an experienced diver.

What is that SSI-DIR?

 

[PerroneFord]

What is that SSI-DIR?

I didn't hyphenate them. There should have been a comma between them. I suppose I should have replaced DIR with GUE, and perhaps that would have been more clear...

 

[wunat]

Weight pockets are a point of failure, it is better to replace them with weight blocks.

The weight pockets I have made and using is similar to Halcyon's Tank Trim Kit. Weight blocks are inserted and pockets are sealed with velcro cover and a 1" nylon strap (sew onto the pocket) with quick release buckle for additional security. In this case, are the weight pockets still points of failure?

I also had trouble with my trim. As a single tank diver (what you probably are too) I put a extra cam strap on my tank with all my weight. You can shift the strap up or down, depending on your position in the water. In case of an emergency, I can't drop my weight belt anymore (which you never want to do anyway). Instead I can inflate my wing or dry suit. Or in the worst case you can drop your canister :-(

D.

Does this means having all the weights on the other side of the wing (the tank side) is ok? The way I understand it is that it's ok as long as it provides us with proper trim and since our position underwater are supposed to remain horizontal most of the time (if not all the time).

Just wondering. Suppose a diver (who are DIR compliant) need to go with a weight belt, how do they put it on.................considering that the cotch strap is there?!?!?

 

[PerroneFord]

Just wondering. Suppose a diver (who are DIR compliant) need to go with a weight belt, how do they put it on.................considering that the cotch strap is there?!?!?

The weiight belt goes on over the harness/crotch strap when diving wet. Or under it when diving dry. At least that's what George Irvine said when I saw him do it on video.

 

[DOXA]

The weight pockets I have made and using is similar to Halcyon's Tank Trim Kit. Weight blocks are inserted and pockets are sealed with velcro cover and a 1" nylon strap (sew onto the pocket) with quick release buckle for additional security. In this case, are the weight pockets still points of failure?

Not everything Halcyon makes is DIR compliant. Quick release buckles always are a point of failure, that’s why you don’t have any on your webbing. I used to have Halcyon weight pockets too, but there was no space left for my canister (maybe I’m too skinny . So pockets introduces a potential threat and a new problem.

Does this means having all the weights on the other side of the wing (the tank side) is ok? The way I understand it is that it's ok as long as it provides us with proper trim and since our position underwater are supposed to remain horizontal most of the time (if not all the time).

You got all right. By moving the can strap up and down, you can raise or drop your head/feet. By moving the weights from the left to right side of your tank, you can prevent a roll over to the left or right side.

D.