Watson Murder Case - Discussion

[DandyDon]

I'm Gabes dad.

That explains your posting history in various threads, and no problem at all. Such involvement with family members in discussion can tend to affect the tone of the discussions, but it's so common for anyone interested to do a "google search" with quotes around names and find articles and discussions anywhere in the world - it happens. For example in totally unrelated threads I have wanted to emphasis how idiotic and stupid a diver had been to become severely injured or dead, for the benefit of us wanting to learn from Accident discussions, only to see the victim's parent posting. It really discourages at times.

I just wanted to comment on the Rescue Diver certification and what it might mean.

Years ago, when I was myself just a typical AOW diver, I was on a boat heading out to a dive site in Cozumel when one of the other divers made it known that he could help us out if we got into trouble, because he was a Rescue Diver. He was quite proud of it. He was diving with his new wife, who had just gotten her OW certification and was on her first five trip.

She turned out to be a much more skilled diver than he was. The DM pretty much had to hold his hand (literally) throughout the dive. He was one of the least skilled divers I have ever seen. I have no idea what kind of instruction that guy went through that got him Rescue Diver certification--perhaps it had been a decade earlier and he had lost it all.

Similarly, I have no idea whatsoever how skilled a diver Watson was, but I know that you really can't tell from the words on a card.

Yeah, I've been on boats with a few Freshwater trained Rescue Divers and Dive Masters, even Instructors, like that. I like to ask them where all they have dived and how many ocean dives they have, then tell them I will let them know if I need their particular assistance.

My intent here is not to criticize anyone as I certainly do not know enough about anyone's involvements to sit in judgment - only discuss for the sake of discussion and possible education to my own diving.

From what I read in some articles I understand that Gabe and not been in the ocean in 4 years nor Tina at all. When members post like that for future trips, I always suggest hiring a private DM for the first day, sometimes more. Presuming this was indeed an accident, they were both good candidates for boat dive training - not qualified for this dive.

I have never been thru what Gabe has been thru, and I know that the horrible stress of the time must have affected some judgments, but I would find it very, very difficult to plead guilty to manslaughter over being a poor dive buddy as suggested. Diving is a potentially dangerous sport, every diver needs to accept that going in, and accidents happen - making dive insurance like DAN's better plans or similar essential.

And I like to drill on getting positive, even dropping weights, on the first dive of any trip. Sinking should only happen intentionally.

 

[K_girl]

From what I read in some articles I understand that Gabe and not been in the ocean in 4 years..

Gabe Watson received his rescue cert 2 years before Tina's death according to his lawyers. Not sure where you got not being in the water for 4 years from.

Source: http://blog.al.com/wire/2010/11/gabe_watson_of_hoover_wasnt_we.html

Have any of you ever heard of a half-day rescue class? Personally, I've never heard of such a thing. In order to be rescue-certified, you have to take First Aid and CPR before you even get in the water. This is what his lawyer is saying in the article:

"It was a half-day class," attorney Joseph Basgier told CBS's "Early Show." ''He had never participated in a rescue dive before. He wasn't an expert rescuer. He had never done it, and he was scared, too. This was his new wife."

I can't make sense of this - if he was scared and it was his new wife - why did they refuse the orientation dive? As far as I can tell from PADI's web site, there is only the Rescue Diver course. The only "quickie" course offered is the Discover Scuba beginner course. I wonder what Watson's dive instructor who performed all of his certifications will have to say about that.

http://www.padi.com/scuba/padi-courses/diver-level-courses/default.aspx

I recall my Rescue dive course consisting of a couple of hours of First Aid, a couple of hours of CPR, one hour for a rescue diver video, several classroom sessions, two sessions of a a couple of hours each in the pool and then one-half day in open water performing rescues. This took a couple of weeks because you need time to read and study the materials because you also take tests along the way. My guess is his lawyers are stretching it to say - he only did one-half day in open water. But that is definitely not all there is to it.

 

[K_girl]

"Without elaborating, King said he has some information that has not yet been made public."

Source: Gabe Watson's family speaks 7 years after his wife, Tina Watson, drowned on Australian honeymoon | al.com

Could this be Watson's trip to Tina's workplace to attempt to change her life insurance that was only reported in one newspaper? Maybe.

 

[DandyDon]

Gabe Watson received his rescue cert 2 years before Tina's death according to his lawyers. Not sure where you got not being in the water for 4 years from.

Both may be true? I've read a large number of the countless news stories, but news articles being as undependable as they generally seem to be - take anything I read as possibly true. What you & I are stating here are two different possibilities...

He was Rescue certified 2 years ago.

He had not dived the ocean in 4 years.​

I do not have an article with that info at hand tho and I may have misremembered that?

Source: Hoover's Gabe Watson wasn't well-trained rescue diver, his lawyer says | al.com

Have any of you ever heard of a half-day rescue class? Personally, I've never heard of such a thing. In order to be rescue-certified, you have to take First Aid and CPR before you even get in the water. This is what his lawyer is saying in the article:

"It was a half-day class," attorney Joseph Basgier told CBS's "Early Show." ''He had never participated in a rescue dive before. He wasn't an expert rescuer. He had never done it...

I don't remember the full details of my rescue course. After our book study, we spent 2 or 3 hours in a class watching videos and practicing CPR on the dummy. If the lawyer was referencing actual diving, I guess we did several as we dived Saturday afternoon and Sunday morning, but those might possibly be crammed into a half or partial day? My bud & I agreed that we didn't particularly learn much but I am sure we followed the Padi course - minimum age 12.

Whatever the real facts are, I get the idea that Gabe was a vacation diver who sometimes dived in local quarries, something like me - altho I don't know his diving history & experiences. I took the course trying to learn to be a better diver; if I ever need to help someone is what some might call a rescue scenario - I hope I make good instant decisions and pull them off well, and I will try, but it'd be unfair to expect much based on an agency card.

...and he was scared, too. This was his new wife."

I can't make sense of this - if he was scared and it was his new wife - why did they refuse the orientation dive?

Haven't seen that claim before. I've read in some places that Tina was, not him? Based on my understanding of their dive experiences, the orientation dive would have been a good idea - but I see people blow off similar opportunities on trips. If they're called "weight check" dives, I skip them - figuring they're more for the vacation divers who haven't dived the sea in over a year, something life Gabe's situation. I don't know why they skipped it tho? Discussing expectations as a couple, based more on his dive experiences which might have been none in currents, who knows how they reasoned exactly?

It is all too common for a brand new diver like Tina, diving the ocean for the first time, having ditched weights once in OW class, using unfamiliar rental gear and brand new wetsuits, to go in severely over weighted, running into trouble, sinking uncontrollably, failing to ditch weights, etc. Far too many Accident discussions include much of that. I wouldn't want to ditch weight other than at the surface, but if sinking uncontrollably - a risk of the bends beats drowning.

 

[K_girl]

Both may be true? .. What you & I are stating here are two different possibilities...

He was Rescue certified 2 years ago.

He had not dived the ocean in 4 years.​

I do not have an article with that info at hand tho and I may have misremembered that?

I've been researching and indexing this case for a couple of years. I've never run across a claim that he had not dived in the ocean in 4 years. The only facts I could get out of his statement about his diving experience was: 1) he was open-water certified in 1996; 2) he had been to 150 feet.

I skimmed through Watson's statement and found this:

"WATSON: ..the deepest I’ve ever gone and dived with Tina was probably around the fifty foot mark um you know just we’ve done ah I don’t know I don’t even know how many, I know like some of the dives I did with her while she was still doing her class.

LAWRENCE: um, have you done many um sea water dives together in the past?

WATSON: I have, no that was the first salt water dive that I have done with her

WATSON: um I think, and I don’t know how many she’s done, I think she’s done a couple"

 

[Trickie Dickie 99]

ACES50 - I am surprised to learn that anyone involved in this case are reading these posts.

Really?

I can't imagine the pain all of you are going through, but it must be especially painful to read the speculation from those of us who only have information that is available through public means.

Indeed.

 

[K_girl]

In addition, the detective asked Watson about how nervous he was about the dive, he never mentioned lack of experience. Here are the things he did mention:

"WATSON: ..she [Tina] asked me if I was getting nervous about diving coming up and I said well yeah, because at that point my nose had snotted up again so I was thinking you know I’m gonna get on this and I’m gonna have sinus problems and I’m not gonna be able to do anything..

WATSON: ..I mean I was probably a little more nervous just cause I’m always nervous about not being about to equalise or whatever just cause you know sometimes I have trouble.."

 

[K_girl]

Trickie - as I told ACES50 - I intend to keep talking about the case. If you don't like it - too bad. He may or may not find that what is being said here will help prepare for his son's defense. His defense team will be looking to counter every prosecution argument. If a point that I have made helps the defense successfully prepare an argument against it - I actually have no problem with that. I was surprised because I did not think this discussion would matter to anyone. If he is looking to put a stop to negative public opinion, that is a very large order that can never be stopped. However, if there is to be no trial or if Watson is found not guilty, the case is over, justice has been served and the Thomas' will have to move on with their lives.

I have kept my observations respectful. I have not disrespected either Gabe or Tina's family. Let me just say that in my job, it is my job to inform attorneys fully of any weaknesses I find. If you don't know what the other side is going to argue, how can you possibly defend against it?

If you still don't like it, just put me on your "ignore" list.

 

[sydney-diver]

I don't remember the full details of my rescue course. After our book study, we spent 2 or 3 hours in a class watching videos and practicing CPR on the dummy. If the lawyer was referencing actual diving, I guess we did several as we dived Saturday afternoon and Sunday morning, but those might possibly be crammed into a half or partial day? My bud & I agreed that we didn't particularly learn much but I am sure we followed the Padi course - minimum age 12.

I just completed mine (PADI), the first aid course was 2 nights (PADI emergency responder). Dive master candidates did a seperate full day course since the PADI course isn't sufficient under our work cover leglislation (apparently). The rescue theory itself was another 2 nights (3 hours per night, PADI recomend three nights but we all voted to stay late and so it in 2). Then we did a day and a half in the water. I suppose you could compress the actual diving, esp if there were only a couple of students and still over the material.

 

[RedCash02]

I don't know about PADI, but some agencies don't require you to take the first aid and CPR classes with them. I had current training through the Red Cross, so that wasn't part of my rescue class. It was originally supposed to be two days of diving, but we were able to finish it all in one long day.