Water Temps and Underwear Advice

[mahjong]

I do have an ordinary DUI drysuit hood, nothing to compare with an Otter Bay helmet, I suspect .

My problem is that I am short. 400g of thinsulate from neck to toe would likely considerably restrict my flexibility and mobility, though perhaps there is some new design that is relatively thin and flexible (unless they've improved lately, DUI is not the place to look for the slimmest fitting thinsulate underwear). Perhaps I will look into some new slim and flexible thinsulate designs. The other problem is that I am unusually fat free (I'm a runner), and I suspect this is why I get cold so easily. So all things considered I suppose I should take the plunge for some high tec thinsulate, and maybe even an Otter Bay helmet.

Unless you already have one, you need an Otter Bay helmet...errr hood.

For me to stay warm I wear a base layer of fleece, like a sweatshirt, pants, and then a pair of thick socks, followed by a 400g thinsulate jumpsuit, with 400g thinsulate booties, oh and of course my Otter Bay helmet. Dove the same setup with my CF200. Saturday in 50 degree water I did an 81 minute dive, and if it wasn't for a flooded glove I would have been fairly warm.

 

[mikeguerrero]

Remember in your open water class about heat loss from your head? Do you remember the percent there?

Best purchase ever will be the Otterbay hood from Cricket, it's measured to your noggin and it ran circles around my DUI warm neck hood, I even had the newer DUI redesigned with better neoprene.

Still the Otterbay hood destroyed my DUI without a match, how can you compare 7mm of neoprene to 12mm? Best warmth factor you will notice right away.

Trust me on this...

 

[mahjong]

Thanks.

I seem to have lost along the way my old PADI OW manuals (kept my SSI AOW manuals, but nothing about heat loss through the head in them). Plucked this off Divetime website:
"Since it's a well known fact that over 70% of your body heat 'escapes' through your head its advised to consider a hood for diving in water temperatures below 70 degrees F."
The Basic Scuba Diving Kit : Divetime.com : Scuba Diving Articles

Also plucked the following, which debunks the "myth":
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/26/health/26real.html

Myth or not, I'm going to look into getting one of those Otterbay helmets...and I'm going to start my jaw strengthening exercises right now (I know that feeling even from ordinary hoods).

Thanks again!

Remember in your open water class about heat loss from your head? Do you remember the percent there?

Best purchase ever will be the Otterbay hood from Cricket, it's measured to your noggin and it ran circles around my DUI warm neck hood, I even had the newer DUI redesigned with better neoprene.

Still the Otterbay hood destroyed my DUI without a match, how can you compare 7mm of neoprene to 12mm? Best warmth factor you will notice right away.

Trust me on this...

 

[andrewy]

Yep i second Mike, when i need warm, i wear 8mm hood and dry gloves and warm 400G socks. , while normally i wear thin 5mm mares hood and wet 5mm gloves. I have DUI400G and MObbys 200G undies, and while DUI is by far warmer, i noticed that only on 1hr + dives, while covering your extremities will feel warmer right away.

 

[Adobo]

I do have an ordinary DUI drysuit hood, nothing to compare with an Otter Bay helmet, I suspect .

My problem is that I am short. 400g of thinsulate from neck to toe would likely considerably restrict my flexibility and mobility, though perhaps there is some new design that is relatively thin and flexible (unless they've improved lately, DUI is not the place to look for the slimmest fitting thinsulate underwear). Perhaps I will look into some new slim and flexible thinsulate designs. The other problem is that I am unusually fat free (I'm a runner), and I suspect this is why I get cold so easily. So all things considered I suppose I should take the plunge for some high tec thinsulate, and maybe even an Otter Bay helmet.

I personally dive a trilam shell suit with a DUI 400gram thinsulate undergarment + a Diving Concepts 200gram thinsulate vest. The reason that I use such a thick set of undergarments is because the trilam shell offers no thermal protection. My dive times are usually over an hour but even if they weren't, I would still prefer to keep this combination as I find it to be very comfortable in ~50degree water.

I don't have any experience with crushed foam or compressed neoprene suits but I do have a few friends who dive primarily these types of suits. My understanding is that unlike trilam suits, compressed neoprene suits have some thermal protection capabilities. Just how much protection is not clear.

Three of my dive friends who use compressed neoprene suits (Diving Concepts, not DUI) started with 200gram thinsulate undergarments along with their compressed neoprene suits. These three friends dive double tanks and routinely do dives of over 1 hour. With all undergarments, the material eventually thins out. For that reason, I think two of these friends have supplemented their 200gram undies with a thinsulate vest.

Diving Concepts offers a very flexible 200gram thinsulate undergarment. They also offer a thinsulate vest if that is not warm enough for you.

If you want to go down the 400gram thinsulate option, DUI's latest offering incorporates fleece stretch panels and does offer decent flexibility. However, it is pretty bulky. Santi offers a form fitting 400gram thinsulate undergarment with stretch panels. The only issue with Santi is they are getting harder and harder to come by.

Edit: Now that I think about it, there is also a 'tweener option. Bare offers a thinsulate undergarment that is 200grams on arms and legs and 300grams on the torso. This undergarment also incorporates stretch panels.

Any Water Sports in San Jose is a retailer for Bare, DC, DUI and Santi. And by the way, they are the best dive shop in the area.

Incidentally, when considering an undergarment for your drysuit, it is good to think about how warm the undergarment will keep you during a dive. But the other (just as important) thing to keep in mind is how warm will the undergarment keep you if you have a substantial leak. In some of our shore dive sites, you may be as much as a 20 minute swim away from your exit. Imagine if your suit springs a substantial leak when you are that far away. Thinsulate is superior to other materials when it comes to keeping thermal properties even when wet.

Lastly, +1 on Otter Bay hoods.

 

[mahjong]

Hugely helpful info! Many thanks! That 300/200 Bare sounds interesting.

Yes, I have discovered AWS in San Jose--about a 10 mile drive for me. I used to only ever send my regs to Scubapro for servicing (I have some older Scubapro regs that I dive and, honestly, don't trust most young technicians), but SP no longer provides this service. A Scubapro rep called me when he received my regs (I shipped them out not knowing they had changed their policy; I had been living in HK for last 2.5 years) and he personally recommended Frank at AWS, saying that Frank is the technician in the area who he would want servicing his regs.

I personally dive a trilam shell suit with a DUI 400gram thinsulate undergarment + a Diving Concepts 200gram thinsulate vest. The reason that I use such a thick set of undergarments is because the trilam shell offers no thermal protection. My dive times are usually over an hour but even if they weren't, I would still prefer to keep this combination as I find it to be very comfortable in ~50degree water.

I don't have any experience with crushed foam or compressed neoprene suits but I do have a few friends who dive primarily these types of suits. My understanding is that unlike trilam suits, compressed neoprene suits have some thermal protection capabilities. Just how much protection is not clear.

Three of my dive friends who use compressed neoprene suits (Diving Concepts, not DUI) started with 200gram thinsulate undergarments along with their compressed neoprene suits. These three friends dive double tanks and routinely do dives of over 1 hour. With all undergarments, the material eventually thins out. For that reason, I think two of these friends have supplemented their 200gram undies with a thinsulate vest.

Diving Concepts offers a very flexible 200gram thinsulate undergarment. They also offer a thinsulate vest if that is not warm enough for you.

If you want to go down the 400gram thinsulate option, DUI's latest offering incorporates fleece stretch panels and does offer decent flexibility. However, it is pretty bulky. Santi offers a form fitting 400gram thinsulate undergarment with stretch panels. The only issue with Santi is they are getting harder and harder to come by.

Edit: Now that I think about it, there is also a 'tweener option. Bare offers a thinsulate undergarment that is 200grams on arms and legs and 300grams on the torso. This undergarment also incorporates stretch panels.

Any Water Sports in San Jose is a retailer for Bare, DC, DUI and Santi. And by the way, they are the best dive shop in the area.

Incidentally, when considering an undergarment for your drysuit, it is good to think about how warm the undergarment will keep you during a dive. But the other (just as important) thing to keep in mind is how warm will the undergarment keep you if you have a substantial leak. In some of our shore dive sites, you may be as much as a 20 minute swim away from your exit. Imagine if your suit springs a substantial leak when you are that far away. Thinsulate is superior to other materials when it comes to keeping thermal properties even when wet.

Lastly, +1 on Otter Bay hoods.

 

[ad6e]

A slightly different take on this .. I'm new to cold water and have just 4 dives on my dry suit (TLS from DUI). What I found is the thermals that came with the dry suit are insufficient for 52F water, although much superior to wet suits. (Anything is superior to a wet suit !!) On my second outing I added an old pair of thin cotton thermal underware that I used to use skiing. Plus a non-cotton T shirt. Much better !! No real need to spend a lot of $$ on new fleece.

Avoid cotton if you can as it absorbs moisture (even cold you do sweat a bit) and becomes cold after a while. That said, I found no problem with the cotton undies.

The DUI hood is OK, but nothing super. If I had to buy again, I'd probably not get that.

Looking forward to the next dive day with a bit more confidence.

 

[deadbilly]

You probably know this already as you already mentioned avoiding cotton, but add any kind of leak or flood to that and you are on a quick trip to misery, if not danger of hypothermia. Cotton does not mix well with cold and wet.

 

[GrumpyOldGuy]

I thought I could get away with flannel undershorts under the polar fleece. One minor leak and an hour with a cold soaking wet crotch cured me of that thought forever.

 

[ad6e]

OK, please educate me on this. Yes, cotton is to be avoided due to absorption (I suspect more of an issue with the upper body than legs). However, if you have a flood, then what does it matter? You now have a very expensive wet suit, and you're now cold. Get out of the water asap. I can't see continuing a dive with a leak .. even if it's "minor" .. if it causes you to be cold and uncomfortable.

Note that I'm not foregoing the normal thinsulate fleece .. I'm just adding a bit of extra under it.