Warped View of the Dive World

[TSandM]

I think it's probably true that the vast majority of recreational DIVERS dive warm water in thin wetsuits. I disagree that the vast majority of recreational DIVES are of that type. Why? Because most of the warm water divers I know dive very little, and most of the cold water divers I know also dive warm water and dive like madmen. PADI considers an active diver someone who is doing 10 dives a year . . . if most of my friends do that little in a month, they are having a dry spell!

Except for a couple of DMs in resorts, I have never seen anyone use full foot fins . . .

 

[Blackwood]

My general understanding of the dive world comes from scubaboard. Beyond a handful of vacations to warmer waters, I am a local diver with a fairly tight knit group of buddies.

None of the OP's "vast majority" statements match up with my experience locally, and I never paid much attention to what others were doing when I was on vacation.

I have a suspicion that, overall, more cold water dives are made annually than warm water dives. I also imagine that there are more warm water divers then cold water divers, but that those cold water divers generally dive year round rather than once or twice a year.

 

[boulderjohn]

A number of years ago I was assigned to teach two English classes for students who had failed the class previously. During a discussion, one of the students said casually that everyone gets arrested at least once before age 16. I said that wasn't true, but everyone in the class agreed with him. I later checked and found that every single student in those two classes had been arrested at least once before age 16. They refused to believe that this was not true of the general population because everyone they knew and hung out with had a criminal history.

We all tend to look at our own experiences and assume they are true of the larger population. It is therefore essential that we look for more objective measures.

If you look at my profile, you will see that I have dived in a lot of places around the world, far more than the average diver. My experiences in most places largely agree with Halemano's. I pretty much saw AL 80s, 3 mm wet suits, and jacket BCDs everywhere. But most of the places I have been throughout those experiences were sought out because they were warm water reef-type dives. Thus, despite the large number of locations, they were the same kinds of locations and thus would likely attract the same kinds of divers and equipment.

On the other hand, when I worked on my cave certification in northern and central Florida I did not see a lot of AL 80s, 3 mm wet suits, or jacket BCDs. On my one day of diving in Puget Sound I didn't either. If my experience were limited to those types of locations, I would tend to draw opposite conclusions about the world's diving habits.

I have never dived in Europe, southern California, Monterey, Canada, the Great Lakes, etc. If I focused on those locales in my experiences, I don't know what i would say about the world's diving preferences.

So we have to look for more objective measures if we are going to talk about things like "the vast majority."

Let's look at BCD use. Last year on a SB forum a dive shop owner gave some industry statistics. He said that in the entire U.S., BP/Ws account for less than 1% of all sales. That will be a shock to people who live in an area (like Seattle) where they are very common, but that indicates that BP/Ws form a very tiny part of the U.S. market. I have no data on the rest of the world.

So, unless someone has more data along these lines, all any of us can do is tell what our own experiences have been like, and just as the three blind men blundering into the different parts of the elephant, we will have no way of knowing how accurately our perceptions describe "the vast majority" of the world's divers.

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

I think he's saying that if you own a Lamborghini that you can't get it fixed in Fairbanks and would have to take it to Anchorage.

Yeah, you really hit it on the head here.

If enough people in Fairbanks start driving Lamborghinis, eventually a dealership or service shop will open there. But don't be surprised if the local market caters primarily to AWD/4WD SUVs and Pickup Trucks until then.

Are you familiar with the LM-002, which was first sold in '86? Hummers are a cheap imitation!

Lamborghini cars full specifications

Production of this one-of-a-kind all-terrain vehicle was halted in 1992, the last 60 LM-002's were special equipped LM/American types, with special chromed bumpers, unique striping on both sides, upgraded leather interior and special side moldings underneath the doors, also special alloy OZ/MSW wheels were mounted.
The total production was estimated at 328 units. Today a second-hand LM will cost around $100,000 and if you can afford one, buy it, because the Diablo has some competition, but nothing even comes close to the LM-002.

 

[TMHeimer]

Halemano. I pretty much agree with most or all you say. It would be interesting to have some statistics verifying some of it--like how do you KNOW the majority use full foot fins? For example, I was just a week in Panama and no one, including the DM used them. I would assume getting such info. would be as difficult as the question that is asked a lot: "How many certified divers are in the world"? But maybe you have some stats--you have provided stats on other stuff before.

 

[awakefie]

OK, so, on to MY warped view of the dive world

I think the VAST MAJORITY of "recreational" dives made in the World are made in waters 70 degrees F and warmer.

I think the VAST MAJORITY of "recreational" dives made in the World are made with Aluminum 80 cubic foot-ish tanks.

I think the VAST MAJORITY of "recreational" dives made in the World are made using Vest BC's.

I think the VAST MAJORITY of "recreational" dives in the World are made wearing 5 mm or less wet suits.

I think the VAST MAJORITY of "recreational divers" first OW courses were "booked" as 3 or 4 day classes.

I think it is highly likely the VAST MAJORITY of "recreational" dives made in the World are made using full foot fins.

I think it is highly likely the VAST MAJORITY of "recreational" dives made in the World are "guided dives."

I think it is highly likely the VAST MAJORITY of "recreational divers" will go "deep" within their first dozen logged dives. (>100')

I think it is highly likely the VAST MAJORITY of "recreational divers" will go "under rock" within their first dozen logged dives. (Cavern, not arch)

Those last four may very well be due to me living 2 decades in Hawaii. :cool2:

I think the Dive Industry has "evolved" to supply the demand generated by the customers clamoring for the above list.

I think the "fringe" of the Dive World (those not in 70 degree F or warmer water and those not "recreational") contending that the Dive Industry is not supporting their Dive World is like a Lamborghini dealer in Anchorage, Alaska contending that the Auto Industry is not supporting their Auto World.

It would be pretty cool if at least some of the responses followed a similar theme as the list in this post, but I do not require you to respond in any way other than be honest and open about YOUR views of the Dive World &/or the Dive Industry.

I think the VAST MAJORITY of "recreational" dives made in the World are made in waters 70 degrees F and warmer.
--I do about 30+ dives a year and in the last 2 years 4 of those have been in water over 70

I think the VAST MAJORITY of "recreational" dives made in the World are made with Aluminum 80 cubic foot-ish tanks.
-- 100% of my dives were with Alum 80's, but now I am beginning dive multiple 80's as I move more towards hitting the wrecks of the great lakes.

I think the VAST MAJORITY of "recreational" dives made in the World are made using Vest BC's.
--I use a travel BC, but I would say I am the minority. Of the 100+ divers I see out on a given summer weekend most these days are in wings. I've never dived one, but would like to give it a try someday.

I think the VAST MAJORITY of "recreational" dives in the World are made wearing 5 mm or less wet suits.
--7mm for me, but I would say its 50/50 between 7mm and dry at the locations where I go.

I think the VAST MAJORITY of "recreational divers" first OW courses were "booked" as 3 or 4 day classes.
--3 Day, 1 Classroom/Pool or E-Learning/Pool, 2 days OW

I think it is highly likely the VAST MAJORITY of "recreational" dives made in the World are made using full foot fins.
--I've never dived in FFF's

I think it is highly likely the VAST MAJORITY of "recreational" dives made in the World are "guided dives."
--I've been on 8 guided dives total... out of the last 60


I think it is highly likely the VAST MAJORITY of "recreational divers" will go "deep" within their first dozen logged dives. (>100')
--Probably true, true for me

I think it is highly likely the VAST MAJORITY of "recreational divers" will go "under rock" within their first dozen logged dives. (Cavern, not arch)
--Never done it, but many do

The spots I hit are packed with divers every weekend when the weather is reasonable. I would say that your talking 100 - 150 divers a weekend making 3 - 10 dives over the course of a weekend using the same gear as I do in the same conditions.


I hope this helps

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Hmmmm ... most of the divers I know will spend anywhere from 10 to more than 100 hours underwater each year for every hour your VAST MAJORITY diver will spend.

They will spend anywhere from $10 to $100 on their dive habit for every $1 your VAST MAJORITY diver will spend.

So who, really, is the "fringe" diver?

And FWIW - I think it's nice that the "VAST MAJORITY" diver, as you describe it, has a champion on ScubaBoard ... but to be perfectly honest, I find some of your views on what constitutes safe diving practices to be pretty loopy ... and not at all what I would say constitutes common sense, or industry best practices.

For example ... I doubt you'd find a single agency out there who would agree with you that there's something "normal" about someone with OW-only training and very little practical experience diving overheads. I can tell you for certain that the agency I teach for doesn't believe it's acceptable to dive beyond your training ... and I'm fairly certain yours doesn't either.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[boulderjohn]

The stated belief that the dive industry does not support a certain segment of the dive community may be a pretty good indication of where the vast majority of the dive world is focused.

In Colorado where I live, almost all of the shops cater to the warm water diver. Only a handful of shops (and we have a surprisingly large number of shops) carry any tech equipment, and I know one shop that decided a couple of years ago that it would only carry jacket BCDs. Despite the fact that all local diving is pretty cold, few shops carry dry suits. If you decided (as I did a few years ago) that you were interested in tech diving, you had to do a real good search for an instructor. If you want to see what I mean, go through each of the tech agencies and do a search for tech instructors in the entire Rocky Mountain region and see what you find.

I am currently spending a month in Florida, and although it is very different here, it is not as different as you might expect. A little objective research will show this. Do a web search for the various wreck diving possibilities north of Fort Lauderdale. You will easily find a wealth of them, with many nice dives within the deeper recreational limits. Now look at the schedules for the various dive operators, pretty much all of which are online. See how many are scheduling trips to the deeper recreational sites. You will the same bland, shallow, easy sites listed over and over and over and over again. Want to an easy dive on a shallow, overturned barge called the Sea Emperor? You can do it almost any day of the week. Want to do one of the deeper interesting wrecks? It's probably not going to happen unless you personally get a group together and charter the boat to go there.

The dive industry does not tend to support that kind of diving because, oddly enough, it wants to stay in business. Dive operators do not carry certain kinds of gear because they do not want an unmoving inventory cluttering their stockrooms and their cash flow. (I was just in two dive shops in the Pompano, Florida area and saw mostly jacket BCDs on the walls.) They don't schedule the more advanced dives because not enough people will sign up for them and the boat won't run.

So, no, the industry does not support the more advanced diver because they are not perceived as providing enough income. A single tech diving spending even as much $5,000 annually does not stack up against a hundred divers spending hundreds of dollars annually. Most companies that make and sell tech-type gear (like Dive Rite) require more minimal sales for its vendors than most shops can count on, so it doesn't make sense for them to form a relationship that is only going to lose them money.

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

Except for a couple of DMs in resorts, I have never seen anyone use full foot fins . . .

If I am not mistaken you made a trip to Lanai with Extended Horizons. I have worked with that operation for nearly 3 years and I have never heard of a trip where every diver had their own fins. It's rare for more than half the boat to have their own fins. The boat's rental fins are all full foot. Most of the rental fins in Hawaii are full foot fins. All the EH instructor/guides but the one legged one wear full foot fins. I think early in your dive career you may not have noticed others fins.

I may use resort in a different context than some. In my mind, resort instructors/guides are working for a resort or for an operator contracted to a resort. That means nearly all dive boats in the State of Hawaii can not be described as "resort" and most have full foot fins as their only rental fins.

I truly believe that you have seen many full foot fin divers, at many of the Maui shore dive sites, both on shore and underwater. What fins was I wearing when we did Ulua?

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

like how do you KNOW the majority use full foot fins? For example

Well, If you look closely I did not even type that "I think the vast majority use full foot fins"