Warning: Bad Belize Dive Experience

[peterbj7]

I personally do not feel that "Safely" is how many of these dives are done. I agree that the history speaks for itself, but "safely" implies that there is sound logic rather than blind luck in how the dives are run. Just my opinion but the above change better reflects reality.

No, I think you have to be more pragmatic than that. "Safety" to me is not the absence of potential accidents but the absence of actual ones. it is a fact that countless BH dives are made by inexperienced divers here with very few actual incidents. That wasn't always the case, but it is nowadays. If you aim at theoretical perfection you will simply kill the industry.

And the use of the term "blind luck" is inappropriate and misleading. The DMs marshalling the dive know what they're doing and are always looking out for potential problems. Is it ideal? No, of course not. But are they just "trusting to luck"? No, they're not.

 

[ScubaSteve]

No, I think you have to be more pragmatic than that. "Safety" to me is not the absence of potential accidents but the absence of actual ones. it is a fact that countless BH dives are made by inexperienced divers here with very few actual incidents. That wasn't always the case, but it is nowadays. If you aim at theoretical perfection you will simply kill the industry.

I am not really looking at this as anything other than a "Blue Hole Issue". I do not think it will kill the industry but it might make a couple Belize operators less money because it would restrict access to the Blue Hole. I truly believe that just because accidents do not happen does not mean that the dives are conducted safely. I could drive twice the speed limit everywhere and never get in an accident. That does not mean I am driving safely.

 

[nimoh]

Why is it that someone posts a very articulate letter describing the circumstances surrounding an experience so that others can be fore-warned and the haters come out of the wood-work? Is it not possible that his experiences are honest? Or that he's not allowed to post negative comments? I had a HORRIBLE dive experience with a dive op in Fiji a few years ago and got crap for it. The Dive Op is no longer in business because of their very unsafe practices. So be it! Let the truth come out!

I don't see any posts by "haters" in this thread, although there are some (including me) asking for more information. I pretty much don't take anything I read by relatively anonymous people at face value.

everything in the OP may be true, but some things such as calling an operation unsafe because they turned off the GPS is a little ridiculous and calls the rest of the points into question.

 

[DevonDiver]

Lack of attention to Engine and Boat Maintenence

A single engine issue/fault is not evidence of such.

Instructing 20+ people onto the Fly bridge ( capacity 8 ppl )

Was that capacity designated? In doing so, what accident, incident or injury was caused? What was potentially avoided?

Instruction to enter water w/ air turned off

Sounds very unlikely.

Little to no dive plan or instruction prior to dives

Your responsibility, not theirs.

Head dive instructor making derrogatory "gringo" comments during the trip

A difference in sense of humor.

Lack of safety / buoyancy devices onboard

Did you do a full inventory check?

GPS - disengaged during entire trip

Not mandated. As you state, Captain was proficient to navigate without electronic aid.

Did you get lost?

Taking OW divers to 132 ft depths ( one OW diver was doing her first dive)

At gunpoint? How did they force you to that depth?

Absolutely no pairing of dive buddies/ all levels including snorklers were chaotically in the water together

Your ultimate responsibility, not theirs.

All dives were ended prematuraly as little as 20 min. on 1 dive

For what reason?

Dives might end when pre-warned state is reached, i.e. member of buddy team/group reaches air reserve, NDL etc.

You went to 130ft... NDL (on PADI RDP) for 130ft is what? hint: not beyond 20 minutes...

What was the NDL...given 3rd dive of the day, following at least one deep dive? Hmmm....


Leaking tanks due to faulty o-rings ..( not sure if replacements were onboard) jsut to name a few

Hardly an 'unknown occurrence' in the diving community. O-rings aren't "faulty"... they are disposable items and frequently replaced due to wear and tear. Often the only sign of that wear and tear is when they fail. It takes 5 seconds to change one.


Quite frankly, I don't see much in your report to justify such a public damnation of a diving operation. Burst O-rings and cattle-mentality divers who take no responsibility for their own dives... hardly something to crucify a dive operator about...

 

[peterbj7]

I do not think it will kill the industry but it might make a couple Belize operators less money because it would restrict access to the Blue Hole

I wasn't referring to the whole local diving industry, just the BH bit of it. Given the costs of operating boats, they can't leave on that trip without 12 or so divers on board, minimum, and preferably 20+. Given the state of the tourism industry here those numbers are rarely reached more than once or twice a week. Cut them back by introducing changes to eliminate 80% or more of potential divers and given that most people come here for a week, BH trips will become rare commodities. It will then no longer be economic to invest in the necessary boats, so the (BH) industry will die. Which means that perfectly trained and equipped divers will no longer have the opportunity to go.

We have to temper ideals with reality. Debatably that has happened here and is about right, albeit improvements can always be made.

 

[Tigerman]

With regards to lack of safety/bouyancy devices;
Did the snorklers wear life jackets (inflatable or otherwise?), does divers not have dive equipment?
I know for sure I would NOT jump over board without my dive gear (which would be set up immediately after each dive and ASAP after leaving the dock), despite the fact that I know the boats Ive been on has had them... somewhere..
If the snorklers did not have life jackets are you sure there wasnt any for them stowed away somewhere? They dont tend to be out in plain sight.

 

[Damselfish]

I agree with arguments on both sides of this - for many people going on this dive it would be better if they didn't, and if some things were done differently. But like other controversial but frequently done dives that don't look very smart on paper, there are mitigating factors that make it not quite as bad as some make it out to be either.

Occasionally people mention how it would be nice to do 3 tanks on Lighthouse Reef and skip the BH, and the answer always seems to be such trips are rare to non-existent because the BH is the draw and few people are interested. Maybe if the Belize tourism folks promoted the other diving out there instead of the BH, more people would be interested in such a thing - and operators would have a better way to avoid taking people on that dive that shouldn't be, plus have 2 special trips to sell. New divers would still have a cool daytrip to go on, and a reason to come back to Belize when they have more experience. (Yeah, I know it won't happen.)

As far as the original story, it seems like the usual combination of some things that may have not been optimal, and some things that may have been perceived incorrectly or expectations that were just wrong. I really wish someone would change the title of this thread...

 

[peterbj7]

I used to run non-BH trips out to Lighthouse Atoll, but stopped after a while because I couldn't sell them. The first principle in selling is to have a product that people want, or sometimes can be persuaded to buy anyway.

 

[boulderjohn]

For those who asked questions about the length of the dives, etc., I think I understand what happened as the OP described it, and I think some of you may have missed it. This explanation may help if it is correct. If it is not correct, I hope the OP will set me straight.

I have done a trip like the one described twice. You take a very long trip from Ambergris Caye, with the time required depending upon weather. You do a dive at the Blue Hole and then progress to Half Moon Caye, where (in differing orders depending upon the trip), you do another two dives, have a lunch, and visit the excellent bird sanctuary there. Then you take the very long trip back home. This is an all day trip that leaves very early in the morning in order to get back at a reasonable hour.

The OP's trip was intended to follow that plan, but things didn't work out so well. On the way out, they had an engine problem that greatly delayed them. This made it impossible to do the entire normal trip and get back to Ambergris Caye at a reasonable hour. The crew made the decision to cut back on things. They hurried lunch. They skipped the Half Moon Caye landing and the bird sanctuary (for which the divers had paid extra). They shortened the third dive.

If that is what happened, then some explanation was needed, and there definitely should have been a partial refund.

---------- Post Merged at 04:52 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 04:28 PM ----------

While we may get tired of people making unwarranted complaints about dive operators, and while many of the complaints are unfounded, we also need to recognize that sometimes there is something to them, and making those concerns public can be a valuable service. We have had a couple of threads on ScubaBoard in recent years about absolutely unacceptable actions by dive operators, and we should be careful about reflexively dismissing them out of hand.

Several years ago the dive shop with which I was working had me lead a trip to Ambergris Caye in Belize. We stayed at a hotel with an on-site dive operator. When we arrived, I met a man who had intended to be on our trip with us but had to come the week before instead because of a scheduling conflict. He told me some horror stories about their week. In one example, they had paid extra for a special all day trip. They arrived at the dock as scheduled in the pre-dawn darkness, only to find that the crew had not arrived. The operator looked around and eventually found replacements. They set out more than an hour late, and it was clear that the DM they now had must have had a rough night. He slept the whole way. Despite setting out so late, they arrived at the special site for which they had paid extra more than a half hour early. (Hmmm.) After their three dives, they headed back. They guy asked for a map of the area, and the DM, not realizing what was happening, gave him one. The guy was savvy enough to be able to look at the map and the surrounding scenery they were passing and tell that they hadn't gone anywhere near the place they had paid for. By the time they got back to the shop (nearly 2 hours early), the DM had admitted that they had gone to another location. Back in the shop, though, they refused to admit it, and they refused to give a refund until the guy threatened to put it on ScubaBoard.

During our trip I saw a couple who had extremely sophisticated camera gear and who had paid extra for a private tour. They got off the boat shouting their dissatisfaction at the DM. I don't know what happened on their trip, but they were saying it was the worst they had ever experienced, and they appeared to be very experienced divers.

Our week was pretty darn bad. I won't bore you with the details, but I wrote out a full report to the shop and said that they should never again use that operator. The shop issued an apology to the people on the trip.

The operator went out of business shortly after that.

So, yes, these threads do come up from time to time, and yes, often charges are unwarranted, but sometimes they are very much warranted, and when they are, the public is well served.

 

[Downing]

For those who asked questions about the length of the dives, etc., I think I understand what happened as the OP described it, and I think some of you may have missed it. This explanation may help if it is correct. If it is not correct, I hope the OP will set me straight.

I have done a trip like the one described twice. You take a very long trip from Ambergris Caye, with the time required depending upon weather. You do a dive at the Blue Hole and then progress to Half Moon Caye, where (in differing orders depending upon the trip), you do another two dives, have a lunch, and visit the excellent bird sanctuary there. Then you take the very long trip back home. This is an all day trip that leaves very early in the morning in order to get back at a reasonable hour.

The OP's trip was intended to follow that plan, but things didn't work out so well. On the way out, they had an engine problem that greatly delayed them. This made it impossible to do the entire normal trip and get back to Ambergris Caye at a reasonable hour. The crew made the decision to cut back on things. They hurried lunch. They skipped the Half Moon Caye landing and the bird sanctuary (for which the divers had paid extra). They shortened the third dive.

If that is what happened, then some explanation was needed, and there definitely should have been a partial refund.

That sounds right to me.

Although I admire the OP's willingness to name the dive op, the thread's title was a poor choice. If I had a bad experience with a dive op in the Keys and wanted to post it, would I be justified in using the title "URGENT WARNING: Florida Keys"? Of course not.

A single dive op on Ambergris Caye doesn't represent the entire country. It doesn't even represent Ambergris Caye, although I realize that for a great many divers AC is pretty much all the Belize they ever see.