Wait to take advanced open water? Or not?

[Frenimy]

FWIW I am a really new diver. I got certified and then immediately went for my AOW. I am extremely glad I went this route as I now feel much more comfortable understanding my limits. Lets face it AOW is really just a way to experience these different types of dives under the supervision of an instructor. I was very nervous about the deep dive and once I did it with my instructor I realized that the deep should not be feared but definitely respected. I included my night dive specialty which I think improved my confidence the most and have been my most enjoyable dives yet. The statements that you need to be a more advanced diver to understand all of the class might be true because they is a ton of knowledge in the AOW book, but as a new diver it opened my eyes to possibilities and scenarios that I was not aware of before. So if I had to do it all over again I would do it exactly the same way.

 

[seeker242]

Simple question like--do you look like a starfish underwater, do you bounce around the water column a lot (+/-5ft, when you turn around is there a silt cloud behind you--if the answer is yes, then I would recommend you try to get some more basic control in order to maximize the class experience.

I've been told I look very good for someone who has just started. I've can do a pretty good frog kick, so no silt! I don't bounce very much, unless I need to by changing my breathing. I've heard "the instructor makes the course" but it's hard to know which instructors are good or not, especially if you don't really know other divers and also if you "don't know what you don't know"

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I think my end goal would be deep decompression diving. Like wrecks at 250' or something like that. I find deep diving very appealing! I doubt I'll ever venture into caves. They just don't appeal to me. I like the ocean! I was thinking of doing both PADI AOW and GUE fundmentals eventually, PADI rescue diver, and I'll probably do some TDI or SDI courses too for solo diving. Or maybe PADI tech training and then GUE tech training and the TDI tech training. Not necessarily in that order. Money is not really an issue, I have a large scuba budget. I figure why not just take ALL the classes?!

That's not a bad approach ... there's a lot of value in taking classes from different instructors and different agencies. My only advice is to not get too hung up on depth ... it often leads to people going deep before they've really acquired the skills and experience to understand and mitigate the risks ... and those do not increase linearly with depth. 250 feet is exceptionally deep, and requires skills you probably haven't even heard about yet. Even with tech training, you should take it to that depth in measured increases.

I only bring that up because access to deeper dives is one of the major reasons why folks want to take AOW ... and although it will expose you to somewhat deeper profiles than OW, it in no way prepares you for safely and reliably preparing for deeper dives ... not even, in many cases, dives within recreational limits. A well-taught deep diver specialty will do that way better ... followed by an Intro to Tech or Advanced Nitrox class. Also, understand that while the GUE Fundamentals class is an excellent way to get introduced to the concepts of tech diving, you will NOT be doing any deep diving in that class. In fact, the majority of your diving will be in water roughly equivalent in depth to what you used for your OW class. The focus of skills, however, will be miles above anything you've been exposed to up to that point. It's a class I highly recommend, given your stated goals ... but it will not take you deep.

Maybe 150 or so and no they've never seen me dive.

That's a little unrealistic ... I teach a NAUI Advanced Scuba Diver class that's way more rigorous than anything the agency requires, and my rule of thumb for students inquiring about entry is that they should be comfortable performing the skills they learned in OW. My rule of thumb is about 20 dives post OW ... enough to gain some comfort in the water with your buoyancy skills, and to have practiced the basic skills you were introduced to in your OW class. The exceptional student can probably do it with just 6 or 8 dives.

But as some have pointed out in here, a lot of AOW classes are designed to be a logical add-on to the OW class. If you should wait too long, signing up for one of those will leave you feeling like you wasted your time and money, because you will have already exceeded the goals of the class before you begin.

So-called "advanced" classes can vary from agency to agency, or instructor to instructor. Find out what the goals of the class are by consulting the instructor you're considering taking it from. Compare those to your personal goals and find out if there's a good fit. If not, keep looking ... you may discover that AOW isn't really the class you're looking for at all ... and perhaps the GUE Fundamentals class would be the better choice for your next class.

I'd also highly recommend you take the Rescue class ... it's the only class I really think everyone should take post OW. Someone said earlier that you need AOW to get into Rescue. That used to be true for some agencies, but I believe they're all pretty much gotten in-line with the idea that you don't need the Advanced class prior to Rescue.

Essentially, AOW gives you some access that you won't get without it. The relevant question then becomes, if you get the card and have the access, did the AOW really prepare you for the dives you're now allowed to do? Since your goals tend toward deeper dives, that's a concern ... and one only you can address. Depending on how it's taught, the AOW may or may not be a good choice to pursue that path. Here's an article I wrote some years ago for folks like you who want to pursue deeper diving ... it might give you some things to think about.

NWGratefulDiver.com

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[CptTightPants21]

I've been told I look very good for someone who has just started. I've can do a pretty good frog kick, so no silt! I don't bounce very much, unless I need to by changing my breathing. I've heard "the instructor makes the course" but it's hard to know which instructors are good or not, especially if you don't really know other divers and also if you "don't know what you don't know"

Then you are ready.
GUE has the most demanding instructor certification process of any agency. The instruction from GUE is guaranteed to be top notch. There will be questions whether an individual instructors personality matches up with yours or if you truly buy into the GUE system, but those are separate from the class itself. They will teach you and it will be worth every penny because your skills will improve tremendously. You are paying a little bit more when compared to PADI pricing, but really its on par with what you would pay a highly experienced tech instructor (which is what you are getting with GUE),

I explained in a previous post why you should look into Pompano Dive Center. Hard to say with a non GUE instructor, but look for guys that have taken and passed GUE courses (fundies, tech, whatever). If they have gone through at least one GUE course and passed, odds are they will teach you the right way even though they aren't officially GUE--example Trace Malinowski is PSAI but has passed Tech 2.

There are also a lot of Non-GUE tech instructors on this board that would be suitable.

Living you Florida, you probably have the highest concentration of top quality scuba instruction in the world.

 

[CAPTAIN SINBAD]

At OW you are still trying to get a grip on a lot of issues that you have learnt. I would wait for at least 20 dives before I bother myself with deep diving, underwater navigation and those other "specialties." At OW level I would do a the next 20 dives as my OW practice dives in which I focus on:

1. Slow and controlled ascents and descents
2. Propulsion techniques and basic feel of buoyancy
3. Buddy diving. We never pay attention to it as a "skill" and that is why when people jump in the buddy system collapses and everyone goes their own way. I would try to do my next 20 dives where I am pretty much shadowing my buddy.

Once I have a handle on the above, only then I will proceed to advanced open water. Dont let the saleseman at the LDS convince you that you are ready for their next product. When you are ready for your AOW you will know it yourself. You will not have to ask anyone if you are ready or not.

 

[kr2y5]

IMHO, the key is, to get access to local mentoring, and maximize opportunities to gain experience. If there's a shop around the corner teaching AOW, and doing the class with them provides access to boat diving and the opportunity to meet local divers/instructors, and if money is not an issue, then it is a no brainer, I would definitely take it ASAP. I've taken AWO right after OW, and while I don't think the class as it was really taught me any new skills, I think the same would've been true if I took that same class 100 divers later. At least, by taking it early, I had the benefit of getting a few more dives and experiencing something very different under the watchful (or not) eye of the instructor, a bit increased confidence, and most importantly, access to more advanced dives sites and to local boats back home. Looking back on all my classes, I think 95% of all my learning and progress happened before and after, not during the class, and mentoring (as well as getting out of comfort zone, within reason) has been instrumental in that process.

 

[TMHeimer]

With this often discussed topic, there are two approaches. One is just take AOW immediately. The other is wait a while. The pros and cons of getting AOW have been mentioned. Of course a big pro is dive ops letting you go deeper than 60'. My thought is do it when you are comfortable with your equipment and have decent buoyancy. There are other things you must do in AOW, such as a lot of compass stuff with the required Nav dive and lift bag stuff and search patterns should you do the Search & Recovery dive. You want to be a comfortable diver when adding these tasks. In my case, I felt pretty good after OW, perhaps because of 40 years of snorkeling. Learning to put the kit together was perhaps my biggest challenge... Then there is logistics--when is it offered, what specialty dives, and when will the next course be if you pass on this one? For me, after two post OW dives, it was the only way I would get out on a boat in the Gulf of Mexico before we left for another year (guess I could've passed on it and taken AOW back home). Worked fine for me. Depends on the diver, and it seems you are ready from what you say. Then, as suggested, after a few more dives, consider Rescue.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

I'm with Bob on this. I teach an AOW class I wrote through SEI. It's called Advanced Level II or III though. I've sent the outline to a number of people so they could use it to compare what they were getting to it. Most don't come close.

8 hours of classroom, 6 dives, and each dive builds on the previous one. No fluff dives. Advanced Skills, UW Nav, Night/LowVis, Deep, Search and Recovery or Wreck, and Buddy Skills and Assist. Those are the dives. Buoyancy and Trim emphasized on every one. Buddy Skills strictly enforced. Dive Planning extensive and detailed.

No more than 2 students per class. I might take 3 if they are all really on their game. I also have the right to ratchet up the requirements to challenge and educate the students. I have had people who took the full UW Nav class first. So the Nav dive is to see just how much they paid attention and practiced.

Stage/pony bottles are used. Students can take the class in single tanks with a pony, back mounted doubles, or sidemount.

My feeling is that if you want the card to gain access to "advanced sites" you damn well better have the skills and knowledge to dive them. Not an experience dive with an instructor or intro to them. You should also have rescue skills BEFORE you get an advanced card. Not after.

If you'd like to see the outline for my Advanced Class shoot me a PM.

Oh and it's not cheap. Currently it's 425.00 and no one has ever said they didn't get their money's worth.

 

[phoenix31tt]

Alot of older guys said the OW course back then was more like the OW+Adv+ a little bit of rescue of today (and it was better back then)... so why not do ow and advanced without trying to get dives in between?
More instructor time upfront wouldn't hurt (assuming at least an ok instructor)...

my first 9 dives were ow + aow... treated it as one big class with lots of face time with the instructor... worked out pretty good for us

 

[Bob DBF]

From RSTC OW standards
A certified open water diver is qualified to apply the knowledge and skills outlined in this standard to plan, conduct, and log open-water, no-required decompression dives when properly equipped, and accompanied by another certified diver.

So if you and your OW buddy can't go out and do some diving directly out of OW class, you should be talking to your OW instructor rather than going on to AOW. You will only find this out if you go diving.

I believe that divers should do a number of dives between OW and AOW to insure that they understand and can perform the skills that they are certified for, without the assistance of an instructor. If I were to pick a number of dives I'd probably say 10 or 20, but I'm old fashioned and believe that divers should take their time going deeper and going deeper is one big reason divers take AOW.


Bob
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I may be old, but I'm not dead yet.