Vortex Accident - T2T

[Kevin Carlisle]

Yeah shocking is right. I knew pretty much this same information but didn't want to put it out there until some of the ICURR guys had their say. I just don't get it, guess I never will either.

 

[Cave Diver]

That's just crazy. Unfortunately death is about the only thing that will stop someone this determined to act stupidly.

 

[The Kraken]

Cave Diver, some may take issue with your post, but I don't.
Many, many years ago in a land far, far away, I saw many young men die for the exact same reasons that we see divers die, over-estimations of their capabilities and/or abilities, poor judgement, especially after proper training and so forth; that is one reason I don't do AOW directly after BOW.

I know what I have stated is a far cry from diving in caves, but the relationship remains the same.

I have lived a long and happy life by acknowledging, knowing, understanding and accepting my capabilities and limitations.

Unfortunately, in any, what some may consider "extreme", hobbies or sports, there are, and always will be, those who think they have some sort of innate, God given ability to abrogate all the laws of logic, training, ability, physis and what have you. . .

Unfortunately, often times DEATH is the only separator between those who can understand limits and abilities and those who don't.

I certainly hope anyone reading this does not misconstrue my observations with a lack of concern and sense of loss, it is certainly not so.

My only addition to this thread is, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE !!! ALWAYS understand your level of ability, capability and understanding and NEVER, NEVER exceed it.

To paraphrase a person who was, evidently, more intelligent and wise than I, "Some times it's better to run away so that you can come back and fight another day."

I have the greatest respect for all of you cave divers, but that is something which I can never do. There are those of you who have graciously offered to introduce me to the discipline, but that is something I can not, and will not do.

Safe dives . . . . . . .
. . . safer ascents !!!

The Kraken

 

[Cave Diver]

My "hersay" from a person that was there, but not diving, is basically as follows:

Diver took a rec s/m class from one of the recovery divers and had to be called down during that class. Would have been washed from a cave class.

Diver has been sneaking in at night.

Diver has been stealing gas from the fill station.

Diver replaced the bolts on the hinge side of the gate with his own lock or locks.

Mat posted some of this information on CDF this morning as well. Looks like he kept the details in his log book of his activities.

 

[Mark Michaud SELAUSAR]

Mat posted some of this information on CDF this morning as well. Looks like he kept the details in his log book of his activities.

Yeah I saw that. I put Heresay because the person who passed it to me, was not diving on the recovery. But, having said that, you will find it to be accurate. The person who reported it to me was there as the information was being developed.

In the other thread here it was told that he has been doing this for some time (diving in caves), taking pictures, and has apparently become an open water instructor (a person who teaches the basics).

I hope that this will be able to be figured out from begining to end, or at least mostly figured out. So many times we are unable to find out and leave it at that. This is a good case with a lot of evidence that pretty much tells the story.

Beyond the fact that a man has died, it is one of the best real life tales to pass to those who have "ego", I'm a cool character under pressure" and the like. Unlike a story in scuba diver magazine this really happened and it happened in a place "everybody" goes to.

We will never stop everyone from dying because of going beyond training and experience, but it will stop some.

 

[netmage]

....

Diver took a rec s/m class from one of the recovery divers and had to be called down during that class.

What does this mean?

-Tim

 

[Mark Michaud SELAUSAR]

What does this mean?

-Tim

Had to be told about a swim through (overhead) during the class, after being instructed to stay clear of them.

 

[Dive-aholic]

My "hersay" from a person that was there, but not diving, is basically as follows:

Diver took a rec s/m class from one of the recovery divers and had to be called down during that class. Would have been washed from a cave class.

Diver has been sneaking in at night.

Diver has been stealing gas from the fill station.

Diver replaced the bolts on the hinge side of the gate with his own lock or locks.

Diver had only yoke bottles.

Diver had a stage bottle with a reg (yoke)

Diver had another bottle with no reg, apparently to switch regs underwater.

There were signs of panic, at the end of the known passage where it is basically no mount, such as finger digs and scratches in the clay. It is very probable that he is there and will not be recovered until that section blows itself out more.

A really bad situation that put a bunch of good people in danger because of sheer stupidity. People who helped lost a weekend, placed themselves in harms way, and used their own resources, for the most part.

Vortex is not a long cave, but it is also not a simple cave either. I posted a description in another section because it is gated, and, because, people need to understand it is much different past the gate. Not a Wayne's World, or anything like that, but not a cave for novices either. The first half, up to the gate, is pretty forgiving. That is good cause people are gonna keep going there. It changes past the gate and if people go to the lengths this guy apparently went to, it probably won't be good for long. It seems this guy, probably, had several dives and got lucky, hence overconfident.

It may be cliche', but you don't know, what you don't know.

I will confirm seeing the equipment Mark describes here as well as hearing the same information about the sneak diving and stealing air (obviously can't confirm that).

...and has apparently become an open water instructor (a person who teaches the basics).

He was a dive con working on assistant instructor.

 

[Dive-aholic]

What does this mean?

-Tim

It means he did something stupid and had to be reprimanded about it.

 

[ucfdiver]

Organized recovery efforts are done. There is evidence in the cave that indicates the location of the body. There may be one more dive conducted there to attempt to visualize the body, but body extraction is not planned. It is too small to conduct a safe recovery.

The recovery divers are all wearing dry suits. The diver was in a wet suit. The recovery divers have been diving trimix. The diver was NOT diving trimix. While this dive could be conducted safely by a trained AND experienced cave diver, and IMO would be safer solo, this is a very advanced dive that requires advanced training and experience. The diver had neither. He had no formal training in overhead or decompression diving. Basically, this was an OW diver who went way beyond his training and experience levels and paid the highest price for this error in judgment. He was not given a key to the gate, but managed to get past it anyway. I know he had been warned about the dangers of cave diving and the need to get the appropriate training. He chose to ignore that warning.​

​

Rob-

Any idea what happens to vortex access after this with a body still in there?