Voodoo Gas In The Vortex! :)

[TheRedHead]

Since he's also a cave diver, Id like to hear his opinion too.

A more interesting question would be, does he take students of OW classes who aren't cavern or cave trained in there and if not, why not?

I've never dived there, but the Vortex Spring website makes it sound as if this area is open to all divers. I realize there are many OW classes conducted there.

You have access to the basin and two artificial caverns that are 55 feet in length. Both ends are open, making the passages safe. Certified cavern divers are permitted to penetrate 65 feet into the passageway that leads to the cave, but should turn around when surface light is no longer visible.

I was under the impression that Frank was in the artifical caverns that are open to OW divers? Was he in the passageway that leads to the cave? I am confused.

 

[Michael Schlink]

There are several cavern/caves that the owner operators encourage or at least don't discourage non cave trained divers from venturing into. Vortex and Ginnie being two of them.

Bottom line if you're not cave trained(and equipped) you shouldn't be in a cave, period
If your not cavern trained(and equipped) you shouldn't be in a cavern, period.

Why do you guys/gals that aren't trained not understand that?? When some of us that have the training, see you folks that don't, going into caves, I for one get a big 'ole knot in my stomach. When you get slapped around a little bit, on a computer no less, take your licks, consider the intent, and then stay the @*ll out of the caves!

We don't want ANYBODY dying in a cave but we especially don't want NON trained divers dying in caves.

I read this post and the first thing I thought was "here we go again"
Somebody do the math "cause I'm too tired"-AL80 (I'm assuming) run the gas out getting into the cave and then a 400' swim to the grate and depth about 110' then let's blow the "O" ring on the yoke style valve. Can you make it out??? I doubt it.

 

[Rick Murchison]

There are still plenty of ways to end up dead in the Vortex system on the open water side of the locked gate. The largest "killer" side-passage has been blocked off with rebar, but there are others.
The main, lit passage is essentially straight and plenty big, with a firehose sized hard rubber pipe running its entire length. Like Mike, I have mixed feelings about the setup. If it were mine I would definitely get rid of the lights, and I think I'd gate it about 10 yards beyond the Grim Reaper warning sign - about 65 feet deep and well before the first side tunnel that makes me really nervous.
On the "it's ok" side of the argument, hundreds of open water divers with positively horrible buoyancy and finning skills rototill their way to the gate and back month after month without incident. On the other hand, there have been several fatalities there in the past, and I just know that some day I'll get called to go in there on a recovery.
On the "third" hand, the fatalities I know of have all been off the main tunnel, poking around in places they shouldn't be, with no cave training... these people would most likely have found a way to become a diving statistic elsewhere if Vortex hadn't been handy.
Personally I don't take students back to the gate - indeed, I have all my students sign and date a statement that says "I have been briefed, and I will not go into the cave." I don't do regular Nitrox qual dives at Vortex. I do have preliminary skills training and practice there for Advanced Nitrox divers, but never in the cave.
The bottom line is, I suppose, it ain't my cave And while I have my reservations about the setup, and I've hung up in the overhead many a time as an invisible safety valve for some folks who obviously had no business being there, I can't really make a good solid case against it.
Rick

 

[Fish_Whisperer]

Our pleasure. Hope you can make it back down for the "Vortoberfest!"
Rick

I'll be there!

Hey, can we go back in that really cool cave?! :lol:


*bolting for cover.....*

 

[TheRedHead]

I'll be there!

Hey, can we go back in that really cool cave?! :lol:

If you were really in the cavern part of Vortex, instead of the open 55 foot tunnels, then you shouldn't have been there. Too many people here are quick to jump on divers without knowing the facts. If your instructor led you into a cavern, he did you a disservice. But there is no excuse for the bullying and name calling you endured. You were following the advice of your instructor.

 

[Fish_Whisperer]

There are several cavern/caves that the owner operators encourage or at least don't discourage non cave trained divers from venturing into. Vortex and Ginnie being two of them.

Bottom line if you're not cave trained(and equipped) you shouldn't be in a cave, period
If your not cavern trained(and equipped) you shouldn't be in a cavern, period.

Why do you guys/gals that aren't trained not understand that?? When some of us that have the training, see you folks that don't, going into caves, I for one get a big 'ole knot in my stomach. When you get slapped around a little bit, on a computer no less, take your licks, consider the intent, and then stay the @*ll out of the caves!

We don't want ANYBODY dying in a cave but we especially don't want NON trained divers dying in caves.

I read this post and the first thing I thought was "here we go again"
Somebody do the math "cause I'm too tired"-AL80 (I'm assuming) run the gas out getting into the cave and then a 400' swim to the grate and depth about 110' then let's blow the "O" ring on the yoke style valve. Can you make it out??? I doubt it.

I understand this, and it may have been a dumb thing to do. I have no particular reason to go back in there again, and didn't have any real reason for doing it in the first place. I doubt that I will do it again. As I said before, there are more interesting things than caves, as far as I'm concerned. The thing I'm most interested in is remaining on this side of the dirt, so everyone, thank you for your advice and words of wisdom. I've taken them to heart. For those that offered only sarcasm and insults and felt justified in doing that, well... I'll take your comments for what they're worth, as well. (Perhaps not what you think they are worth...) :shakehead

By and large, for everyone who has contributed to this thread, thank you. I hope that someone else can come across this thread and learn from it. I certainly have.

Again, thank you.

-Frank

 

[MikeFerrara]

I've never dived there, but the Vortex Spring website makes it sound as if this area is open to all divers. I realize there are many OW classes conducted there.

You have access to the basin and two artificial caverns that are 55 feet in length. Both ends are open, making the passages safe. Certified cavern divers are permitted to penetrate 65 feet into the passageway that leads to the cave, but should turn around when surface light is no longer visible.

I was under the impression that Frank was in the artifical caverns that are open to OW divers? Was he in the passageway that leads to the cave? I am confused.

He was in the real cave. If I read correctly they went back to the locked gate which is about 300 ft back and a little over 100 ft deep.

From what you quoted from the web site, Vortex management is giving "certified cavern divers" permission to penetrate 65 ft into the cave. I'm guessing that's because some agencies limits on caver diving is set at 130 ft from the surface and the entrance is at 60ft or so.

The artificial caves are man made irregular shaped tubes. They are an overhead and I could imagine ways for a diver to get hurt in them but you can't get lost and they are all very shallow.

 

[scubadobadoo]

Oh yes... Quite a BLAST!! Where were you staying? We were at the Casa Del Mar, fortunately...

I rode out the storm at Christi's house (blue xt sea owner) after Caribe Blu closed down. Good times!!:lol:

 

[Rick Murchison]

I'll be there!

Hey, can we go back in that really cool cave?! :lol:


*bolting for cover.....*

Sure... contact Chickdiver to get your training done before then
Rick

 

[Fish_Whisperer]

I rode out the storm at Christi's house (blue xt sea owner) after Caribe Blu closed down. Good times!!:lol:

Haha.... Oh man.... I swear, I never want to go through anything like Wilma ever again. I hope the reefs continue to recover. Maybe if there are some milder tropical storms this year, some of the surge will help to wash more of the sand off of the reefs.... Glad you made it through the storm. We were probably on the same American Airlines flight that came in and took a ton of touristas back to Texas. LOL