Visual Jumps

[mdax]

we always run a spool with arrows on each side of the gap/jump...every single time.
Spools in pockets is the way to go, i'm super cheap and when my buddy hands me back a spool that i dropped all i can think about is the cost of my lm spools and double ender.

 

[Dive-aholic]

When was Devils blown out a few years ago?

I wasn't personally there, but I do recall a lot of chatter on the 'net about someone doing some exploration dives during the middle of the day and blowing out hundreds of feet of passage.

I'm just curious what distance it is, since 50% of people fail at the lost line drill

The way I run the drill is a 15' jump to a jump line, 15' along a permanent line, a 10' jump to another jump line. From the main line to the 2nd jump line is about 30'. Instructions are to find the main line, not the white lines. About 1/2 don't find either because they begin going the wrong direction. They don't fail at the lost line drill. It's not a pass/fail drill. As long as they do the drill appropriately (primary tie off, sweep, etc), I'm happy. I actually prefer they don't find the line. It's a better lesson.

I think Dive-aholic is getting students to go from one line to another in a silt out? Which is different to how I did lost line. Just had to find the line I had been on.

We do both ways. First time from off the line back to the line. Second time in the mock visual jump scenario.

Just to clarify, you make them take a fake visual jump, silt out the return path, with the fake visual jump, and say, FIND THAT FING LINE SON IN THE SILT. They then deploy lost line drill and 50% fail to make the jump.

Read above for the set up. Also, no silting happens. I give them a duct taped mask to put on so they can't see, but I can. This way I can pull them back out of the restrictions in the area before they get too far in them. About 1/2 are unable to find the main line within 10 minutes.

 

[Dive-aholic]

I have done one.

In the Chamber of the Ancients, in downstream Carwash, you run a long primary reel in to the mainline. That mainline forms a small circuit, and the two ends of the line are about four feet apart, and easily seen at the same time. When I did the circuit and got to the end, I was facing my own reel, tied into the other end of the line. I could literally have put my knees on the end of my line, and my hands on my reel. Rather than go back all the way around, we went forward and picked up our reel and left. I suppose that a sudden total siltout might have caused problems at that point, but I had three lines (both ends of the mainline and my own reel) within six feet of me, and you'd have to work very hard to silt out the entirety of the chamber.

I find this acceptable as long as that wasn't the dive plan gas-wise. If you could make the circuit using proper gas management rules and could return the way you came if necessary, then fine. Otherwise, if the plan is to do the circuit and not return (because you've done it before and know you can do it using less than 2/3s of your gas) then why not take your primary reel and wrap it around one end, then run it to the other end 4' away so if you found yourself in zero visibility at the other end, you could follow your reel out from there without having to swim the entire circuit back to a location 4' away? Just a thought.

Other than that one occasion, I do not do visual jumps and I marked all intersections . . . unless I'm narced (right, Rob?).

LOL!

 

[Wormil]

Do you reward them with a 'You're dead sticker' ? I would.

 

[TSandM]

We actually didn't realize we would come back so close to our starting point -- we had never done the dive before, and didn't see the other part of the line at the beginning (it was embarrassing to realize how close it was, and we hadn't seen it!). But we got all the way around short of thirds, so we could go back on thirds, so it wasn't really a circuit.

I'm surprised to see so much negativity about small reels. Ben Martinez introduced me to them, and I've been enjoying mine. Fits in a pocket, and is SO much faster to pull out than a spool!

 

[Dive-aholic]

Do you reward them with a 'You're dead sticker' ? I would.

No sticker needed. They know.

I'm surprised to see so much negativity about small reels. Ben Martinez introduced me to them, and I've been enjoying mine. Fits in a pocket, and is SO much faster to pull out than a spool!

I prefer spools. I can fit a lot more in my pocket and, with practice, they are just as easy and fast to pull out as a reel.

 

[Cave Diver]

I'm surprised to see so much negativity about small reels. Ben Martinez introduced me to them, and I've been enjoying mine. Fits in a pocket, and is SO much faster to pull out than a spool!

I'm open to looking at a new design, but all of the small jump or gap reels I've tried so far suck IMO. I have a hard time imagining a reel being faster to pull out than a spool. I can see it being faster to wind up, but not deploy.

Got a picture or link to the one you use?

 

[karstdvr]

That mainline forms a small circuit, and the two ends of the line are about four feet apart, and easily seen at the same time. .

There was fatality in Mexico over something similar to this. I am not judging current attitudes on Mexican cave diving since I haven't been there is quite a few years,but I was concerned with some of the complacancy that was occuring. Guides have learned the systems from diving so often,and in an effort to show people a lot of cave on a single dive,they do circuits,and have seen as many as 3 visuals included in the dive plan. The bad thing is trained cave divers will agree to this because it is "easy",and a "cool" dive. I had a dive plan submitted to a group I was diving with that included 2 visuals,and I refused and said I would sit on the surface. The guide realizing he was going to lose his fee change the dive plan. What was terrible was that one of the people came up to me later and said they didn't feel comfortable with the dive plan and glad it was changed,they were going to do the dive ,and their uneasiness puts the team at risk.

 

[karstdvr]

then why not take your primary reel and wrap it around one end, then run it to the other end 4' away so if you found yourself in zero visibility at the other end, you could follow your reel out from there without having to swim the entire circuit back to a location 4' away?

What if you had another team in the water that got confused by this circuit,and accidently went back into the cave with a silt out or no lights situation. Sounds like the line should be replaced so it isn't so close together,and takes away that problem. There was a cave system where a jump was very close to the main line,and common practice was to pull the main line over to the rock the jump line was on,making a "snap and gap". Another team unaware of this went up the wrong line when exiting having not seen that another team did this,and they didn't notice it(at least this is the conjecture since dead people can't talk)

 

[JahJahwarrior]

I use reels for a lot of stuff, because I have enough reels and they don't bother me. I'm faster with a reel than a spool. But I use manly reels, the "Larry Green" ones and a "Jeff Special." I imagine that the tiny jump reels sold by DR would be harder to use.

I often store reels on my butt D ring. Easy to reach,
Out of the way, easier than stuffing in pockets which are full from two safety spools, backup mask, tables and backup lights if I'm sidemount. Works for BM and SM equally as well.

Which is worse: visually running through the roller coaster, or not running a primary through your planned exit, the Eye?