VIP sticker/ID #'s

[tbone1004]

Bell tone test on a steel cylinder? That's neat.

The fact that you would fail a tank that just came back from hydro because of a subjectively measure audible noise during a VIP? Interesting...

Also, can dive shops even legally condemn scuba tanks?

no, one shop actually did X out all of the markings on one of the cylinders of a friend of mine and was promptly threatened to get sued if the shop didn't replace it. He got a new tank out of the deal. No one has the authority to legally condemn a tank outside of the hydro shops. All a dive shop can do is refuse to fill a tank, and refuse to put a sticker on it, that's it. Now as mentioned above, Bryan has a waiver with his customers that he is allowed to condemn gear. I personally wouldn't do that, all I would do is tell them that I can't service it, here is why, and recommend replacement, but to each his own.

Regarding the bell test. It is actually a good test to do prior to filling a cylinder. If it doesn't ring, it has a crack in it somewhere. This was done on rail wheels prior to scanning technology. You'd hit the wheel with a hammer and if it didn't ring, it had a crack in it somewhere. Tanks do the same. It's something that if you hear a dull thud, then something is clearly wrong somewhere. To what extent, and where, that is for you to figure out, but imo it is not something alone that can condemn a tank. Just a quick indicator to tell you something is wrong or not. Similar to guys health. If you don't wake up with morning wood, something is wrong. Doesn't tell you what is wrong, but tells you something is wrong and you have to go looking.

 

[guruboy]

If you don't wake up with morning wood, something is wrong. Doesn't tell you what is wrong, but tells you something is wrong and you have to go looking.

Lol. Not sure that is sound medical advice.

 

[redacted]

Now as far as liability, our customers sign a waiver before we do any service to any scuba related equipment, giving us the authority to service and even condemn equipment, and furthermore, sign an agreement that they accept all responsibility after leaving our property with their cylinder. No signature, no service, simple as that. Do we have people who complain, absolutely. Do we have people who leave with out a service, absolutely. Do we have people who play nice, sign the forms, get a service, accept the fact that they are responsible for their own safety, pay for the service and fill, go dive, enjoy life, and then become repeat customers, absolutely. To each his own.

Do you require the waiver for fills?

 

[tursiops]

Who remembers the guy who ordered hot coffee from Mcdonalds and ended up spilling it on himself. Since Mcdonalds did not have "BECAREFUL, COFFEE IS HOT," written on the outside of the cup, he won a law suit for several millions of dollars against them. In a nut shell he manipulated the system legally and won.

You ought to get your story straight before telling it.
The Actual Facts about the Mcdonalds' Coffee Case

 

[2airishuman]

I've never had to sign anything for a VIP or a fill (except the fill log for nitrox).

I would never sign something giving a dive shop authority to "condemn" one of my cylinders. If they conclude the cylinder is unsafe, I would like to hear their concerns and see the evidence for myself and then I may decide to remove it from service. There have been too many examples of dive shops "condemning" cylinders for non-problems.

 

[Lake Hickory Scuba]

Do you require the waiver for fills?

Just proof of certification.

 

[Lake Hickory Scuba]

I've never had to sign anything for a VIP or a fill (except the fill log for nitrox).

I would never sign something giving a dive shop authority to "condemn" one of my cylinders. If they conclude the cylinder is unsafe, I would like to hear their concerns and see the evidence for myself and then I may decide to remove it from service. There have been too many examples of dive shops "condemning" cylinders for non-problems.

I wonder if there is a verified list floating around of how many shops have been accused of this.

 

[Lake Hickory Scuba]

You ought to get your story straight before telling it.
The Actual Facts about the Mcdonalds' Coffee Case

I stand corrected, Thank You. The way I read it, it wasn't millions paid out but an undisclosed amount.

 

[2airishuman]

I wonder if there is a verified list floating around of how many shops have been accused of this.

I'm aware of two unrelated court cases that were decided in favor of the cylinder owner.

Here's what PSI has to say:

PSI-PCI is aware of cylinders that are condemned by persons citing a myriad of unfounded reasons unaware there are Federal requirements for cylinder condemnation. Condemning cylinders for the sake of a sale (or simply ignorance) is unethical and constitutes nothing less than fraud

 

[tursiops]

I stand corrected, Thank You. The way I read it, it wasn't millions paid out but an undisclosed amount.

And it was a she, not a he.
And shared fault also lay with McDonalds.