VIP & Hydro Date Relationship

[Luis H]

Chances are, his reasoning is so that he can have the tank hydro'd, and get it VIP'd, at the same time all at once and not worry about having to open it multiple times possibly exposing it to rust/moisture. The less a tank is open, the better.

I didnÃÕ read your post earlier.

In any case, I have no problem opening a tank many times. Every time I open I tank, I make sure it is dry and warm. If the ambient air humidity is high I actually use a small electric heater to keep the tank warmer than ambient. This avoids any possibility of condensation.

At the last minute before screw on the valve I always flush the inside with dry air and then I close it.

There is no real advantage at limiting the number of times you open a tank if you are just a bit careful (I tend to be more than just a bit). I do avoid doing any extra unnecessary work.

 

[DA Aquamaster]

I agree with Luis on this. If you VIP a tank with a hydro due in less than 12 months, date the VIP sticker so that it "expires" the same month the hydro expires. This would be to prevent the tank being filled in the event the fill station operator reads the VIP sticker but fails to note the far more important hydro test date.

The definition of when the VIP expires is however where it gets interesting.

The standard used to be pretty much universal that the VIP expires at the end of the month, just like the hydro test (ie: a hydro test date stamp of 05A04 expires May 31 2009 and the matching VIP sticker would be punched May 2008 to expire May 31 2009.

However at some point some subset of inspectors, trainers and agencies decided that if the VIP were done on May 1 2008, the user might get 13 months between inspections and that this would somehow be wrong or dangerous so they dictate that the VIP expires on the first of the month - or in this case May 1, 2009 rather than May 31, 2009.

Personally I think the first of the month view is pretty stupid as it conflicts with the DOT regs regarding hydro test dates. Scuba industry standards aside, a VIP is a required part of the hydro test so any different interpretation get the two out of sync from the start with a 5 month discrepency developing between hydro tests. That benefits no one except the dive shop selling 6 VIPs per 5 year period rather than 5. Practically speaking if properly inspected, either 12 or 13 months is frequent enough to catch any developing problems. Anything that poses a threat with a 1 month extension will be something obvious like an odor to the gas or water sloshing inside the tank.

From a regulatory perspective federal law trumps any state or lesser laws or regs so if push came to shove, the first VIP on a freshly hydro tested/requalified tank would expire at the end of the month 12 months after the test was completed. ie: a 05@08 hydro and VIP would require a new scuba industry mandated VIP on the first day following May 31 2009 in other words, June 1 2009.

But it is one of those areas where common sense left the building a long time ago and the LDS doing the fill petty much has the customer over a barrel if they decide they won't fill a tank with a VIP sticker that was punched in this same month the preceding year.

 

[Hinalo]

So, what you're saying is that there is no consistent ruling, beyond what the LDS says, about whether you can get a fill throughout the punched month, a year later, or must get a new VIP at the beginning of that month?

I'm getting on a boat tomorrow and the tank I want to use has a VIP sticker punched in January 2008. That's why I'm interested. I have another cylinder that I'll bring and leave one of 'em in the car, but it would be great if there was some consistency to this question of beginning or end of month VIP requirement.

 

[tedtim]

So, what you're saying is that there is not consistent ruling, beyond what the LDS says, about whether you can get a fill throughout the punched month, a year later, or must get a new VIP at the beginning or that month?

You are correct. Inconsistency is the only thing that seems to be consistent across the dive shops here.

My LDS looks at both the VIP date and the hydro date. If one of them is not right, then they will not fill the tank. When I do VIPs, the date is as of the end of the month in which it was done. As for the hydros, well I never really now when they were done, so the same rule applies.

The process at my LDS is to check the VIP and hydro dates. If either are past the month/year stamped, the tank will not be filled.

 

[rjack321]

However at some point some subset of inspectors, trainers and agencies decided that if the VIP were done on May 1 2008, the user might get 13 months between inspections and that this would somehow be wrong or dangerous so they dictate that the VIP expires on the first of the month - or in this case May 1, 2009 rather than May 31, 2009.

The propagator of this BS is PSI. As a for-profit company, they not only train inspectors on VIPs and tank safety but want everyone to make money of course. They are continually trying to increase their market share and that of their trainees by putting out these little tidbits like an 11 month VIP and other obscure gems like the CFRs require their training etc etc.

 

[drdaddy]

The air stations around here will not fill a tank if it needs either a hydro or vis.

Here's how my LDS handled the situation with me. When I brought a tank in for a vis they noticed that my hydro was due in less than a year so they told me I needed a hydro. I got the hydro. In 5 years the hydro and vis will be the same date (if I get my tanks "vis"ed on time).

I've got a steel tank that needs a hydro in Sept 2010 (09-05 on tank). I'm having a vis (and tumble) done now (Jan 2009), another vis done in August 2009, and then the vis/hydro in September 2010. I like to plan so that I'm not expectantly told that I can use my tank and interrupt my dive plans.

We've got 6 steel and 4 al tanks, so keeping track does get a bit "interesting" (headache) at times.

drdiver

 

[SparticleBrane]

Why multiple VIPs per year?

 

[oxyhacker]

You're kidding, aren't you? They made you get a hydro early to bring the hydro timing in step with the VIP sticker?

If so that is so stupid that the mind boggles. The hydro is a requirement under federal law. The VIP is an informal "community standard" with no official rules or legal force. Please tell me you are joking or that I have misunderstood.

That is just nonsense about "keeping track". You get a hydro when the hydro expires. You get a visual when the visual expires. There is no requirement that you jump through hoops to keep them in some sort of synch. If its a headache, its because you are letting idiots bash you on the head!

Here's how my LDS handled the situation with me. When I brought a tank in for a vis they noticed that my hydro was due in less than a year so they told me I needed a hydro. I got the hydro. In 5 years the hydro and vis will be the same date (if I get my tanks "vis"ed on time).

I've got a steel tank that needs a hydro in Sept 2010 (09-05 on tank). I'm having a vis (and tumble) done now (Jan 2009), another vis done in August 2009, and then the vis/hydro in September 2010. I like to plan so that I'm not expectantly told that I can use my tank and interrupt my dive plans.

We've got 6 steel and 4 al tanks, so keeping track does get a bit "interesting" (headache) at times.

drdiver

 

[oxyhacker]

There will never be consistancy until the DOT decides to take over the VIP game which they are not about to do. They are not really all that interested in SCUBA tanks anyhow, since it is debatable that they have any jurisdiction over them anyhow.

But you mention a boat. Is your fear that you will not be able to dive with an out-of-visual tank, or that you won't be able to get it filled. If the former, logic would say that the VIP sticker has nothing to do with when you can USE a tank, but only with whether you can get it filled again. It's nuts the think that if you fill a tank towards the end of the VIP period, you are supposed to drain it on the day the VIP ends, rather than wait until you have used it up and have it VIPed before you get it filled again.

OK, logic is short in the VIP corner of the dive industry, but support for my interpretation comes from the Code of Federal F\Regulations - an expired hydro doesn't mean that the tank cannot be used anymore, only that it cannot be refilled. You are welcome to take as long as you like using up the contents. And the CFR is the LAW not just someone's good idea like the VIP program.

I'm getting on a boat tomorrow and the tank I want to use has a VIP sticker punched in January 2008. That's why I'm interested. I have another cylinder that I'll bring and leave one of 'em in the car, but it would be great if there was some consistency to this question of beginning or end of month VIP requirement.

 

[Doc Harry]

Why multiple VIPs per year?

Not sure if this applies to the above-mentioned cylinders, but...

The recommended VIP schedule is based on the frequency of cylinder usage. I don't have the specific recommended schedule in front of me, but once a year VIPs applies only to cylinders that are used infrequently. Well used cylinders at dive shops, for example, should get a VIP several times each year.

There's no law, that's just the recommendation....