Video: Underwater Fishing and Tagging of Goliath Grouper

[scubadada]

Hi DD,

What is your connection to the FWC, a volunteer, an independent contractor, an employee, or what? In other words, how are you authorized to participate in this activity? Is the protocol for the sampling and tagging of Goliath Grouper available to the public for review, if yes, where is it located? Where can I read/review the scientific output from this program, abstracts, presentations, publications?

Thanks in advance for your cooperation and consideration.

Best, Craig

 

[Reck Diver]

Why not contact the FWC and find out? The website is myfwc.com
They have a page where you can post your questions and receive a response via e mail.

It is very helpful site to get facts.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

Hi DD,

What is your connection to the FWC, a volunteer, an independent contractor, an employee, or what? In other words, how are you authorized to participate in this activity? Is the protocol for the sampling and tagging of Goliath Grouper available to the public for review, if yes, where is it located? Where can I read/review the scientific output from this program, abstracts, presentations, publications?

Thanks in advance for your cooperation and consideration.

Best, Craig

I don't mind the questions, but if you read over the thread and follow the links, I think most of your questions are already addressed.

---------- Post Merged at 09:28 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 09:24 PM ----------

I would have thought the clear message, was that the "natural" numbers of these fish is a thousand times higher than what we have now, so technically, if we want to rebuild the species, it needs to get exponentially larger in population size than it is now, prior to opening any season on them....
Also, it makes the claims about the jewfish as being destructive to target species of fish seem foolish, as if we had thousands as Frank discussed, they must not have been eating all the snapper and other game fish--because they were hugely abundant back then also.

WOW you sure do glean a lot from that video clip.

 

[scubadada]

Why not contact the FWC and find out? The website is myfwc.com
They have a page where you can post your questions and receive a response via e mail.

It is very helpful site to get facts.

Thanks Reck Diver,

I did go to the FWC site and found little information on the Goliath Grouper research project(s). After your suggestion , I submitted a query.

Appreciatively, Craig

---------- Post Merged on November 9th, 2012 at 10:53 AM ---------- Previous Post was on November 8th, 2012 at 03:41 PM ----------

At DD's suggestion, I went to the FSU website and found detailed information regarding Goliath Grouper and their current research programs. Others may find this of interest also http://www.bio.fsu.edu/coleman_lab/goliath_grouper.php

Good diving, Craig

 

[dumpsterDiver]

[h=3]NOTICE TO FISHERMEN AND DIVERS[/h] [h=5]About | Threats | Vulnerability|Threats | Vulnerability | Status | Population Recovery | Distribution Map[/h] [TABLE="align: center"]
[TR]
[TD]

Adult Tag (on fish's back)​

[/TD]
[TD]

Juvenile Tag (on fish's belly)​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

[h=2]IF YOU SEE THIS FISH[/h] [h=1]GOLIATH GROUPER[/h] [h=2](formerly known as jewfish)[/h] [h=1]call: 1-800-367-4461 (in Florida)[/h] [h=2]email: coleman@bio.fsu.edu[/h] [h=3]or write: Dr. Felicia Coleman[/h]

Florida State University Coastal & Marine Laboratory,
St. Teresa, FL 32358-2702​

[TABLE="align: center"]
[TR]
[TD] [h=2]Please provide the following information:[/h] [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]

• your name, address, phone number, e-mail
• fish’s location (LORAN, GPS, or LATITUDE AND LONGITUDE), depth, and date seen
• fish’s estimated total length, weight
• tag number and photo if possible

[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[TABLE="align: center"]
[TR]
[TD]

DO NOT REMOVE TAG
DO NOT ATTEMPT TO HARVEST
GOLIATH GROUPER ARE PROTECTED BY LAW
YOUR HELP IS GREATLY APPRECIATED​

Hotline sponsored by The Florida Fish & Wildlife Conservation Commission's
Florida Wildlife Research Institute​

​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[h=5]About | Threats | Vulnerability|Threats | Vulnerability | Status | Population Recovery | Distribution Map[/h]

 

[danvolker]

NOTICE TO FISHERMEN AND DIVERS

About | Threats | Vulnerability|Threats | Vulnerability | Status | Population Recovery | Distribution Map

[TABLE="align: center"]
[TR]
[TD]

Adult Tag (on fish's back)​

[/TD]
[TD]

Juvenile Tag (on fish's belly)​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

IF YOU SEE THIS FISH

GOLIATH GROUPER

(formerly known as jewfish)

call: 1-800-367-4461 (in Florida)

email: coleman@bio.fsu.edu

or write: Dr. Felicia Coleman

Florida State University Coastal & Marine Laboratory,
St. Teresa, FL 32358-2702​

[TABLE="align: center"]
[TR]
[TD] Please provide the following information:

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]

• your name, address, phone number, e-mail
• fish’s location (LORAN, GPS, or LATITUDE AND LONGITUDE), depth, and date seen
• fish’s estimated total length, weight
• tag number and photo if possible

[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[TABLE="align: center"]
[TR]
[TD]

DO NOT REMOVE TAG
DO NOT ATTEMPT TO HARVEST
GOLIATH GROUPER ARE PROTECTED BY LAW
YOUR HELP IS GREATLY APPRECIATED​

Hotline sponsored by The Florida Fish & Wildlife Conservation Commission's
Florida Wildlife Research Institute​

​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
About | Threats | Vulnerability|Threats | Vulnerability | Status | Population Recovery | Distribution Map

Great page DD. I like the "opinion" versus the "science" part also

The science supports what we were discussing a few posts back, about how when the Jewfish were a thousand times more concentrated in the 50's, that they were still not eating the target species ( snapper/grouper/etc) , but instead low trophic level marine life the fisherman have no interest in. The fact that they eat toadfish, indicates to me that if their numbers continue to return to maybe even 10 times what it is now( still a fraction of what it was with a healthier ecosystem as we had in the 50's) , that they may begin removing Lionfish, as this is a similar slow moving food target that would represent value to the jewfish species, once their population gets more normalized in our area, and there is some competition for the crabs and other low trophic level species they presently target.


In fairness to some of the other spearos that have posted in the past, the science also suggests some divergence in genetic makeup, due to geographical separation and lack of breeding between the separate populations....It would make sense that the Fisheries commissions look at Individual populations, and regulate them as such....If they are plentiful in the Carolinas or North Fl more in line with the populations back in the 50's, then it would make sense to treat them almost as a separate species. Unlike in the 70's and 80's though, I don't think the "objective" of the fishery should be to "cull the herd" to the point of them being conspicuously absent from many sites....I think it should start at a very low "take" level, and then measure the results....Maybe award permits to a lottery of spearos.

Here in Palm Beach, we are so far from the healthy populations of the 50's, there is no recovery in the real sense, as yet. We are getting them to come back from the brink of extinction, but there is a long way to go.

On the other hand, there is no "sport" to walking up to a cow in a pasture, and shooting it with a gun or Bow & arrow.....Jewfish are close to equivalent in the ease of approach, and ease in hunting. Again, ask Frank Hammett how easy it was for him to get several a DAY for decades.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

Great page DD. I like the "opinion" versus the "science" part also

The science supports what we were discussing a few posts back, about how when the Jewfish were a thousand times more concentrated in the 50's, that they were still not eating the target species ( snapper/grouper/etc) , but instead low trophic level marine life the fisherman have no interest in. The fact that they eat toadfish, indicates to me that if their numbers continue to return to maybe even 10 times what it is now( still a fraction of what it was with a healthier ecosystem as we had in the 50's) , that they may begin removing Lionfish, as this is a similar slow moving food target that would represent value to the jewfish species, once their population gets more normalized in our area, and there is some competition for the crabs and other low trophic level species they presently target.


In fairness to some of the other spearos that have posted in the past, the science also suggests some divergence in genetic makeup, due to geographical separation and lack of breeding between the separate populations....It would make sense that the Fisheries commissions look at Individual populations, and regulate them as such....If they are plentiful in the Carolinas or North Fl more in line with the populations back in the 50's, then it would make sense to treat them almost as a separate species. Unlike in the 70's and 80's though, I don't think the "objective" of the fishery should be to "cull the herd" to the point of them being conspicuously absent from many sites....I think it should start at a very low "take" level, and then measure the results....Maybe award permits to a lottery of spearos.

Here in Palm Beach, we are so far from the healthy populations of the 50's, there is no recovery in the real sense, as yet. We are getting them to come back from the brink of extinction, but there is a long way to go.

On the other hand, there is no "sport" to walking up to a cow in a pasture, and shooting it with a gun or Bow & arrow.....Jewfish are close to equivalent in the ease of approach, and ease in hunting. Again, ask Frank Hammett how easy it was for him to get several a DAY for decades.

Dan: Unfortunately I hear that Frank is no longer with us.

As for the idea that they eat lionfish, that is NOT true. There is no evidence to demonstrate it (that I am aware of), and if some scientists documented it as a significant contribution to their diet, I think it would be big news.

I know that we would all like to believe that they might be preying on the increasingly more abundant lionfish, but it does not seem to be occuring. ZERO evidence of it. They are not eating them, even when they are aggregating around structures that hold lionfish.

As for your off the cuff claims that the population is 1/10 (or 1/1000th) of what it once was, I am not so sure that I believe that, but I wasn't diving back in the 50 or 60's..

If there ever is a re-opening of the fishery, I agree that it would probably have to be very limited in take. The population has exploded in the last 10-12 years in our area, but the breeding population in SW Florida is still very vulnerable to red tide and cold kill events (with the juveniles residing in the shallow water that can cool very rapidly, this was a big issue a few years ago when we had brutally cold weather for several days).

The idea of a carefully controlled lottery/tag system is what I hear mentioned most often by people who seem to support this kind of idea. I trust the regulators would know enough to never open the fishery during the spawning aggregation season. So, I could envision that it might be possible to open up some kind of fishery in the future, without distrupting the aggregations themselves and the ability of divers to view them.

ALL the comments above are my own and are offered from the perspective of a layman, NOT as a scientist. Certainly they should NOT be considered to be representative of the researchers from FSU (or anywhere else).

 

[danvolker]

Dan: Unfortunately I hear that Frank is no longer with us.

As for the idea that they eat lionfish, that is NOT true. There is no evidence to demonstrate it (that I am aware of), and if some scientists documented it as a significant contribution to their diet, I think it would be big news.

I know that we would all like to believe that they might be preying on the increasingly more abundant lionfish, but it does not seem to be occuring. ZERO evidence of it. They are not eating them, even when they are aggregating around structures that hold lionfish.

As for your off the cuff claims that the population is 1/10 (or 1/1000th) of what it once was, I am not so sure that I believe that, but I wasn't diving back in the 50 or 60's..

If there ever is a re-opening of the fishery, I agree that it would probably have to be very limited in take. The population has exploded in the last 10-12 years in our area, but the breeding population in SW Florida is still very vulnerable to red tide and cold kill events (with the juveniles residing in the shallow water that can cool very rapidly, this was a big issue a few years ago when we had brutally cold weather for several days).

The idea of a carefully controlled lottery/tag system is what I hear mentioned most often by people who seem to support this kind of idea. I trust the regulators would know enough to never open the fishery during the spawning aggregation season. So, I could envision that it might be possible to open up some kind of fishery in the future, without distrupting the aggregations themselves and the ability of divers to view them.

ALL the comments above are my own and are offered from the perspective of a layman, NOT as a scientist. Certainly they should NOT be considered to be representative of the researchers from FSU (or anywhere else).

Did you hear something about Frank passing? I had not....I hope not!

As to the Lionfish eating behavior, I am not saying it is in their diet now....I am saying that if there were 10 times as many, competion for the slow moving low trophic species, and toadfish, could lead to them adding Lionfish to their diet....only an increase in their numbers, and reduction in food supply would be likely to cause them to sample an unknown species like the Lionfish.... It will be interesting to see if it happens.

 

[yarik83]

I do not know about exploding numbers guys. I dove from Boynton Beach about 50 trips or 100 dives and err... only grouper I see are babies about 5 inches in length. I have never seen any grouper larger than that at said dive site. I do recall seeing 1 grouper at budweiser wreck but it was dark and my flashlight broke so I did not go into the loading deck where he was.

I understand the need to study these things but I do have to caution about methods I saw in the video. I am not an expert on fish tagging but it did not look too fish friendly to see a large fish dragged from back of the boat to front of the boat using a rope.

Every time I see one of those animal shows I always see fish bagged into a blue tarp and fish being kept in water as much as possible. Maybe you guys should look into that.

To untrained eye it looks 1 step away from sport fishing these endangered species.

Additionally without doing thorough research above mentioned flier specifically requests that fish are not harvested and that tags are observed and reported. Without deep understanding it almost implies that IF you see a tagged grouper, report it to lady involved with project. I would think that you would have to work for fish and wildlife to do any kind of harvesting?!

Usually species that are protected are under such protections that its hard to even move them out of harm's way without a permit. Gopher tortoise, bald eagle, sure fish qualify under same category one would think?!

 

[dumpsterDiver]

I do not know about exploding numbers guys. I dove from Boynton Beach about 50 trips or 100 dives and err... only grouper I see are babies about 5 inches in length. I have never seen any grouper larger than that at said dive site. I do recall seeing 1 grouper at budweiser wreck but it was dark and my flashlight broke so I did not go into the loading deck where he was.

I understand the need to study these things but I do have to caution about methods I saw in the video. I am not an expert on fish tagging but it did not look too fish friendly to see a large fish dragged from back of the boat to front of the boat using a rope.

Every time I see one of those animal shows I always see fish bagged into a blue tarp and fish being kept in water as much as possible. Maybe you guys should look into that.

To untrained eye it looks 1 step away from sport fishing these endangered species.

Additionally without doing thorough research above mentioned flier specifically requests that fish are not harvested and that tags are observed and reported. Without deep understanding it almost implies that IF you see a tagged grouper, report it to lady involved with project. I would think that you would have to work for fish and wildlife to do any kind of harvesting?!

Usually species that are protected are under such protections that its hard to even move them out of harm's way without a permit. Gopher tortoise, bald eagle, sure fish qualify under same category one would think?!

You must not be diving on any structure with any vertical relief?