For the same reason I don't watch gory movies, I wouldn't want to watch the video because I figure my memory has a finite capacity, and I don't want to fill it with morbid images.
Dennis
Dennis
video showing diver's death - should be broadcasted?
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Stoo
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I'm afraid I can't agree. First, the crashes in this type (driver training) of film, do not identify the accident victim/s by name. They are anonymous.jonnythan:
Secondly, considering that only a handful of people on this entire planet are ever likely to be involved in this sort of extreme diving, the value of the film as a training tool is nil. True, those few that are involved might learn something, but what they learn will to competely irrelevant to the rest of us. In spite of this, the nformation will eventually filter down to the rest of us.
Our society has developed a bizarre taste for this sort of "stimulation". Respect the memory of this man and respect his family's right to morn in private.
Green Hand
Registered
I just know I shouldn't even buy into this discussion - but here goes.
I have viewed the footage / documentary in question [on cable tv], I also viewed the footage / documentary of a cave divers death in New Zealand in the early-mid 1990's [mentioned earlier in this thread, and I also viewed the documentary of a New Zealand climber who died descending Mount Everest [which included his final satallite phone call with his wife].
All three were harrowing and upsetting, but also engrossing in that they celebrated some amazing human beings, their lives and their close friends and families.
They were all aired with the consent of their families and all of them included interviews with their families and friends - who seemed very keen to be able to discuss why their particular family member / friend persued such dangerous adventures and that these activities contributed to ho they were. Basically the conclusion was that they lived amazing, fulfilled lives and died doing what they loved.
We are discussing Dave Shaws death because it occurred whilst he was diving - hence we have an inherent interest in it. However, what I took from the documentary was not a stream of technical questions about 'how could this have happened?' [it was an incredibly technical and dangerous dive that had very little error for mistakes]. What I took from it was 'boy, what an amazing adventurer who pushed his life to its limits, knowing that each dive was very dangerous - but also very exciting'.
Whilst his Dave Shaws death was obviously tragic I don't think the documentary shows it in a morbid way and I actually think that including it in the documenatry is a most honest way to celebrate his life and what he did with it.
If I go doing what I love and the footage is not to gruesome [ala camera on my head and I stop breathing] please show it and shout from the roof tops - 'he was an explorer and a pioneer and he died for a noble cause doing what he loved!!'.
I want my life celebrated not talked about in hushed tones - and I think my family would want the same [it'll be ther decision by then anyway].
I know its a bit rambled but I hope it in some way gets across my thoughts without offending anyone.
And I hope your not celebrating my life too soon - my parents were only 800 mts. away from the Suicide bombers in Jimbaran Bay, Bali [we have a Villa there]. They have been in lock-down for two days and are flying home tonight. We have some dear Balinese staff and friends that I think will have a very tough five years ahead.
Celebrate life - cause it can end very quickly and very unexpectantly.
I have viewed the footage / documentary in question [on cable tv], I also viewed the footage / documentary of a cave divers death in New Zealand in the early-mid 1990's [mentioned earlier in this thread, and I also viewed the documentary of a New Zealand climber who died descending Mount Everest [which included his final satallite phone call with his wife].
All three were harrowing and upsetting, but also engrossing in that they celebrated some amazing human beings, their lives and their close friends and families.
They were all aired with the consent of their families and all of them included interviews with their families and friends - who seemed very keen to be able to discuss why their particular family member / friend persued such dangerous adventures and that these activities contributed to ho they were. Basically the conclusion was that they lived amazing, fulfilled lives and died doing what they loved.
We are discussing Dave Shaws death because it occurred whilst he was diving - hence we have an inherent interest in it. However, what I took from the documentary was not a stream of technical questions about 'how could this have happened?' [it was an incredibly technical and dangerous dive that had very little error for mistakes]. What I took from it was 'boy, what an amazing adventurer who pushed his life to its limits, knowing that each dive was very dangerous - but also very exciting'.
Whilst his Dave Shaws death was obviously tragic I don't think the documentary shows it in a morbid way and I actually think that including it in the documenatry is a most honest way to celebrate his life and what he did with it.
If I go doing what I love and the footage is not to gruesome [ala camera on my head and I stop breathing] please show it and shout from the roof tops - 'he was an explorer and a pioneer and he died for a noble cause doing what he loved!!'.
I want my life celebrated not talked about in hushed tones - and I think my family would want the same [it'll be ther decision by then anyway].
I know its a bit rambled but I hope it in some way gets across my thoughts without offending anyone.
And I hope your not celebrating my life too soon - my parents were only 800 mts. away from the Suicide bombers in Jimbaran Bay, Bali [we have a Villa there]. They have been in lock-down for two days and are flying home tonight. We have some dear Balinese staff and friends that I think will have a very tough five years ahead.
Celebrate life - cause it can end very quickly and very unexpectantly.
caribou
Registered
I read that story, although I'm not a technical diver, and don't plan to be one. The guy was diving to this extreme depth, the whole dive (including decompression stops) was suppose to last about 11 hours.
Watching the video is not necessary. I read that story (maybe on a different website) and over several pages, they explain the whole process of planning the dive, setting up the dive support, training in a pool to put a body in a body bag underwater, the various decompression stop and various mixes used.
The story was well written in the sense that it was stating facts, not trying to "imagine" what happened.
The main issue was that the body to be recovered had been there lying there for a while, and was stuck into the ground. when Shaw tried to get it in the bag, the body suddenly shot up (more boyant than expected). This was unplanned.
unplanned means dangerous. that's what we learn :"plan your dive, dive your plan".
Aborting was the thing to do. no need to think, unexpected ==> abort. that simple.
I'm not saying it is easy, I'm saying this is what we should remember from this story.
Everything else is irrelevant, whether he indeed hook himself up with his wrist mounted light with the line (he was used to have a head mounted light, but chose to use a wrist mounted light) or not is not gonna bring him back. Whether he over exert himself trying to put the body in the bag anyways isn't relevant either, this is just a consequence of not choosing to abort.
I believe a full (first hand) report with careful facts analysis is much more fruitful to learn from it than watching a gory video. I don't plan to exceed recreational limits in my future diving but I still learned a lesson when I read it.
Watching the video is not necessary. I read that story (maybe on a different website) and over several pages, they explain the whole process of planning the dive, setting up the dive support, training in a pool to put a body in a body bag underwater, the various decompression stop and various mixes used.
The story was well written in the sense that it was stating facts, not trying to "imagine" what happened.
The main issue was that the body to be recovered had been there lying there for a while, and was stuck into the ground. when Shaw tried to get it in the bag, the body suddenly shot up (more boyant than expected). This was unplanned.
unplanned means dangerous. that's what we learn :"plan your dive, dive your plan".
Aborting was the thing to do. no need to think, unexpected ==> abort. that simple.
I'm not saying it is easy, I'm saying this is what we should remember from this story.
Everything else is irrelevant, whether he indeed hook himself up with his wrist mounted light with the line (he was used to have a head mounted light, but chose to use a wrist mounted light) or not is not gonna bring him back. Whether he over exert himself trying to put the body in the bag anyways isn't relevant either, this is just a consequence of not choosing to abort.
I believe a full (first hand) report with careful facts analysis is much more fruitful to learn from it than watching a gory video. I don't plan to exceed recreational limits in my future diving but I still learned a lesson when I read it.
hlthcom
New
mania:
It's a moot point because the video's already been shown on "Nightline." Ted Koppel interviewed the journalist who wrote the "Outdoor" story.
I see no harm in showing it if the family has no objection.
Barbara
pilot fish:
Dave's support diver, Don Shirley spent 12 hours in decompression on this dive, and experienced a bend at 150 meters. He managed to hold on to a shot line, whilst support divers got to him, and after 12 hours of ascent, they cut the deco short by 2 hours 20 minutes (at 10 feet) and put him in the chamber instead.
They were all on rebreathers, but had 35 deco cylinders staged throughout the cave, allowing for total rebreather failure. The narcosis was probably pretty heavy, but remember they'd all be on a pretty thin trimix - Probably something like a 7/40 mix.
Needless to say though, Dave was a highly qualified cave diver - these kind of depths should not be attempted by anyone without a lot of training and experience.
You can read about the preparations for the dive on http://www.deepcave.com
Ten9T6
Contributor
As others have said..if by watching the video, someone could take something from it that may save their lives, then I say this or other videos should be released. I do not mean releasing them to the general public to end up in the 'carnage' section of a website. Maybe to a diver that is wanting to go tech. Sure the diver will say they understand what they are getting in to...But, do they really? Some do but I would be willing to bet some do not. Watching something like this may save their lives. I also believe that it should be up to the family to decide if the video should be released.
I have also had this conversation with my family. Back when I was Skydiving all the time, I made my wishes clear to my family. If I die doing the things I love to do...make sure others learn from it. Whether it was a mistake I made or an equipment problem...it didn't mater. Hopefully, in my death, I can save someone.
A combination of a bad jump (read falling through 800 ft at terminal) and a video watched later that day (of a fatality jump)....woke me up. I had about 150 jumps at the time and thought I was bulletproof. That video reminded me that I was not. I am glad that I watched it. It is sad, but sometimes people need a very powerful / in your face reminder.
just my opinion..
Kenny
I have also had this conversation with my family. Back when I was Skydiving all the time, I made my wishes clear to my family. If I die doing the things I love to do...make sure others learn from it. Whether it was a mistake I made or an equipment problem...it didn't mater. Hopefully, in my death, I can save someone.
A combination of a bad jump (read falling through 800 ft at terminal) and a video watched later that day (of a fatality jump)....woke me up. I had about 150 jumps at the time and thought I was bulletproof. That video reminded me that I was not. I am glad that I watched it. It is sad, but sometimes people need a very powerful / in your face reminder.
just my opinion..
Kenny
caveseeker7
Contributor
Don Shirley is the IANTD licensee for South Africa.
He wrote a very detailed, chilling and captivating article about his dive and accident that was published in IANTD's Nitrox Diver magazine.
He wrote a very detailed, chilling and captivating article about his dive and accident that was published in IANTD's Nitrox Diver magazine.
octgal
Contributor
Just to remind everyone that the video only shows the dive from Dave's view point as the camera was on his head, you don't actually "see" his death, just that he slowly stops breathing and moving. Personally i think they should show it, why not, like people mentioned National Geo was going to show the body recovery video which in my opinion is much more graphic as the head of the body actually becomes sperated while his is struggling with it to get it into the bag. Something that wasn't expected and probably added to the stress of the situation. If they were going to show that, might as well show the whole thing
My opinion is that it should be shown, assuming the family is OK with it. Knowledge is power and there is definitely something to be learned.
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