very cold hands and feet - ideas?

[wolfgirl]

Hi- since I started diving I developed Raynaud's Syndrome, which causes the blood vessels in my hands and feet to over-constrict when they get cold = not much blood flow=colder extremities. This is a primarily annoying condition in my case and I'm not looking for any medical advice. But even in 80 degree water with my Monterey-thick gloves and booties on, my hands & feet are cold and start to ache from cold by the end of the dive. They're fine once I'm out and warmed up, but it would make diving much more enjoyable if I could find a way to keep my hands and feet warmer (I wear a wetsuit already to keep warm in general; would prefer not to have to get drysuit certified and lug one to tropical locations). I don't know of any products out there that can help with this - do you? The other tricks I use work on land but not in water (like instant hot packs, etc.)

thanks,

Jaime

 

[The Kraken]

This may sound a bit odd, but get bigger boots and gloves.

The temperature of the water is going to cause your veins and capillaries to constrics. You don't need additional constriction caused by the squeeze of clothing. The idea of the wet suit is to keep water in, albeit a very small amount that can't be replaced, so that the body will heat and and provide insulation.

If your boots and gloves are too tight they can prevent the admission of water to be heated and put undue pressure on your veins and capillaires restricting the warming blood flow that has, evidently, been reduced already by your syndrome.

 

[DA Aquamaster]

My thought would be to consider some type of vasodialator. But I would consult with a physician familiar with diving medicine as I am not sure what effect that would have on you over all in terms of DCS risk.

With or with out any medication your DCS risk will be different. Your extremeties are not going to on gas as qucikly but then again they won't off gas as quickly either so I suspect some dive profiles could put you at elevated risk.

A dry suit really may be the way to go.

 

[String]

Id go with the drysuit and dry gloves route as well. Water is a very good heat conductor and any of it in contact with the areas are going to cool them rapidly no matter how thick the neoprene.

You wouldnt need to lug it to a tropical location, simply take the wet suit gloves and boots.

 

[matt_unique]

Hi- since I started diving I developed Raynaud's Syndrome, which causes the blood vessels in my hands and feet to over-constrict when they get cold = not much blood flow=colder extremities. This is a primarily annoying condition in my case and I'm not looking for any medical advice. But even in 80 degree water with my Monterey-thick gloves and booties on, my hands & feet are cold and start to ache from cold by the end of the dive. They're fine once I'm out and warmed up, but it would make diving much more enjoyable if I could find a way to keep my hands and feet warmer (I wear a wetsuit already to keep warm in general; would prefer not to have to get drysuit certified and lug one to tropical locations). I don't know of any products out there that can help with this - do you? The other tricks I use work on land but not in water (like instant hot packs, etc.)

thanks,

Jaime

It is a misnomer that wesuits keep you warm by holding water against your body which your body then warms. Water conducts heat away from the body much faster than air. The weakness in wetsuits is that they allow a small amount of water to circulate around your body. When you are diving wet in really cold water (40 degree water) and you turn your head you can sometimes feel a BLAST of ice cold water run right down your back - ha ha - trust me - this is not an advantage to wetsuits. Drysuits keep you warm because they keep you dry with their neck/wrist seals and of course with the layers of thermals you wear underneath. A drysuit in really warm waters can actually be dangerous due to overheating. I was in a 75 degree pool with a drysuit for too long once and I nearly passed out on the surface due to heat exhaustion.

For your purposes I would suggest dry gloves. There is a type of dry glove that seals at the wrist with a latex seal. You would roll your wetsuit sleeve back a bit, put the glove on and align the latex seal properly, then roll your wetsuit sleeve over the latex seal for a good tight fit. I have been considering them myself for my neoprene drysuit.

--Matt

 

[Paco]

Id go with the drysuit and dry gloves route as well. Water is a very good heat conductor and any of it in contact with the areas are going to cool them rapidly no matter how thick the neoprene.

You wouldnt need to lug it to a tropical location, simply take the wet suit gloves and boots.

And with the dry suit and gloves you can use the chemical hand and foot warmers you use on the surface. I used the sole sized foot warmers on my ice dives and they worked great.

 

[roakey]

There's an old hiking saying that applies to diving as well...

If your feet are cold, put on a hat.

If you're not wearing a hood, you're getting significant cooling from your head. I bet you see a significant improvement with a hood if you're not wearing one now.

Roak

 

[pipedope]

You loose heat fastest from your head so the first thing to do is put on a hood. If you are already wearing a hood get a thicker one or a hooded vest.

This is serious, your body will keep your head warm at all cost and letting your hand and feet freeze is the first thing it will do.

Outdoorsmen for centuries have said, "If your feet are cold, put on your hat."

 

[Windwalker]

Somewhere out there I have seen Wetsuit and drysuit warmers, They are electric I believe. I personally dive wet (in friggin cold water) I am thin framed, delicate hands and feet so I know what getting cold is. I noticed I stayed warmer in 38 degree water then the Drysuit guys with Argon, but on the surface I become a Icecube. (that is the REAL advantage to dry suits) I don't buy that Drysuit people are warmer under water. Every dive that has been turned on me due to cold has been someone wearing a drysuit. I used Deep Sea gauntlets and my hands would go numb, Switching to better gloves (like Scubapro) seems to help a little bit. Also, My feet stay warmer if I tuck my booties into my wetsuit as opposed to putting my booties over my wetsuit. I get more water on my ankles, but my Bare has a seal that stops it there. That might help. The last thing that I do to stay warm is eat a lot of fatty foods (Limp bacon, real low grade meat, etc) that gives my body the energy to keep the body temp up and that makes a HUGE difference in how cold I get (especially during surface intervals)
One thing to consider with a wetsuit is keep yourself depth limited, as you go deeper the suit will compress more, if you stay shallower, the thickness will provide some insulation. Ideally the thinner you can keep the water layer inside the suit, the warmer you will be. Does your wetsuit have seals around the legs, arms and neck? These help keep water from flusing around inside the suit and keep the core temp up. All it takes is for my core to drop a little bit for my hands and feet to cube up on me. Another thing to consider is the effects of pressure on the body. The deeper you go, the more your body has a tendency to keep the blood flow closer to the organs, The extra fluid is pumped into your kidneys and your bladder causing you to want to pee. This takes away from the extremeties and causes your limbs to become colder. Scubadiving magazine had a real good article about immersion diuresis (page 55 May 2004) I guess armed with that information, one could also say 'Drink more' yea gods! that leads to having to pee.. but hey! no problem your in a wet suit!

 

[wolfgirl]

thanks for all the ideas, guys. A few notes: I do have a prescription calcium channel blocker I can use if I get desperate- it's really up to me and how uncomfortable I am - in my normal land life I choose to do anything and everything EXCEPT taking drugs to keep extremities warm and this works 90% of the time. Underwater is obviously different. (again, no medical advice, please, I understand there are risks to taking ANY medication and diving). I noticed during a recent workout that when I swim in a pool (not sure of water temp, but probably high 70s), my hands lose warmth quickly, but after a couple laps they're fine, which tells me that maybe my problem is exacerbated by the fact that I'm *not* one of those divers who flails around wildly with my arms and legs- I'm very efficient in my movements and maybe if I weren't, I'd stay warmer...

I think "String" misunderstood about lugging the drysuit. I am talking about diving in tropical water here (I have had problems in water up to 80 degrees), not cold water, so if a drysuit were my solution, yes I unfortunately would have to lug it on dive vacations, as I've never seen a tropical dive resort offer drysuits for rent...

MATT- you wrote: For your purposes I would suggest dry gloves. There is a type of dry glove that seals at the wrist with a latex seal. You would roll your wetsuit sleeve back a bit, put the glove on [...]" Can you tell me a brand name(s) I can look up online somewhere? I've never heard of these.

Windwalker- you said "Somewhere out there I have seen Wetsuit and drysuit warmers, They are electric I believe." I might be missing something, but how can something electric be used *in water*? Wouldn't that pose a few problems?? Also: "I get more water on my ankles, but my Bare has a seal that stops it there." Sorry, what is your 'Bare'- is that the brand of your wetsuit you have?

Part of the problem is probably that I do not have my own wetsuit- yes I realize I should have one that fits me and it will be the best insulation, but for budgetary and weight fluctuation issues I've put off buying one. Maybe it's time now. Maybe that would help.

So I should've asked- what's the warmest water destination the closest to California they've ever dove? We're trying to plan a trip in the next several months and water temp has become one of our primary considerations now. Have already been to Cozumel (loved it, will go again but want to check out a different place if possible), would love to go to Caribbean but our trip might be in Aug/Sept. and want to avoid hurricanes. Anyone been to Trinidad/Tobago? Liked it? How long is the flight? Aruba? My husband has already been to Bonaire. He was looking at Hawaii, but I've never really heard that it's a great diving destination... Florida Keys, anyone? I know there's hurricanes there too, but how's the diving?