Venting for Drag.

[MichaelMc]

Frog kicking is the predominant kick used by most people that contribute to this board. Wish you had something that worked for that

I'm not a cave diver. I've frog kicked the Pros for 4 years helping teach scientific diving, ~80 ocean dives, and ~30 pool sessions, and have a smooth and some times quick reverse in them.

The Force Fin Hockey's have much more umph than the Pros for frog (and flutter), don't require the same precise placement and usage for reverse, respond immediately and with more umph for reverse, and have a powerful flutter w/o killing my ankles (like Jets did the *one* time I tried them in a pool. I dove Voit Duck fins extensively in the past and hated them.). I have 6 ocean dives in my Hockeys. So not an expert!! But the Hockey are very different than the Pros. I like mine a lot. They bumped up my max thrust should I ever need that for current and are much much easier and stronger for technical kicks.

The Excellerator is supposed to be more precise than the Hockey. :shrugs:

 

[tbone1004]

@MichaelMc the force fins should be much more efficient going backwards than anything else the way they're scooped, but they just don't have the thrust going forward as something like a Jet Fin, Deep6, Hollis F1, OMS Slipstream etc. Hard to grab water on the bottom of the force fins when they are specifically made to make their power on the downstroke when the list of fins listed above are in "recovery" mode

 

[Bob Evans]

After 33 fin patents I might have some idea on how fins work.....but what do I know I am just a ARTIST. Appreciate the comments.

 

[tbone1004]

After 33 fin patents I might have some idea on how fins work.....but what do I know I am just a ARTIST. Appreciate the comments.

willing to send a blem pair down to cave country for us to try whichever model of fin you recommend for frog kicking? I've used force fins in the ocean and they're great for flutter kicking, great for back kicking. What I was never able to get out of them was any sort of forward thrust in high-drag/current conditions.

 

[Bob Evans]

@MichaelMc the force fins should be much more efficient going backwards than anything else the way they're scooped, but they just don't have the thrust going forward as something like a Jet Fin, Deep6, Hollis F1, OMS Slipstream etc. Hard to grab water on the bottom of the force fins when they are specifically made to make their power on the downstroke when the list of fins listed above are in "recovery" mode

Really, I would think by now..divers might understand how the Force fins work...Thank GOD for the Navy divers, just filled a nice order for San Diego and the Italian Navy last week...and the week before Dutch Navy. Made in USA. Can not forget Captain Billy Deans...what a diver.!!

 

[MichaelMc]

@MichaelMc the force fins should be much more efficient going backwards than anything else the way they're scooped, but they just don't have the thrust going forward as something like a Jet Fin, Deep6, Hollis F1, OMS Slipstream etc. Hard to grab water on the bottom of the force fins when they are specifically made to make their power on the downstroke when the list of fins listed above are in "recovery" mode

I agree on the Pros 100%. Frog is an exercise in using them in their recover direction. Reverse you can use the edge by collapsing it or slide them back sole-to-sole and then use their power stroke to go backwards.

The Hockey are rather different. Much more plank like. I'm sure Bob could have a better term but they are. They have two back-side length-wise ribs that seem to reenforce the flutter down stroke, but are still a bit stiff in the reverse direction, nothing like the Pros, which fold over on the recovery stroke.

It seems like the design might mean you give up some *efficiency* on flutter relative to the Pros, but they have much more *power* on flutter. And give a much more powerful frog, though still on their backstroke, which is much stiffer. I mostly dive frog. With the hockey, frog punches me along if I want them to, while the Pros are low effort in moving me, but not as much punching me forward.

 

[tbone1004]

Really, I would think by now..divers might understand how the Force fins work...Thank GOD for the Navy divers, just filled a nice order for San Diego and the Italian Navy last week...and the week before Dutch Navy. Made in USA. Can not forget Captain Billy Deans...what a diver.!!

and yet, none of those divers kick like we do in cave country since the military really only flutter kicks. If the Hockey or whatever models are what you think will work, why aren't there any for the divers to try in cave country?

 

[tursiops]

Really, I would think by now..divers might understand how the Force fins work.

How can we possibly understand when all you tell us is "trust me" and "I have a lot of patents?"

 

[kelemvor]

 

[Joneill]

How can we possibly understand when all you tell us is "trust me" and "I have a lot of patents?"

...and start the thread off with an invalid comparison .