Venice - $168 fine for no flag..

[fgray1]

Police do not prevent crimes. They react to them, they investigate them, Sometimes they even solve them. But they don't prevent them.
Adding more police to the force will do nothing to stop crime. You want to stop crime you have to stop the revolving doors on the jails. Police serve a purpose and are needed but they have turned into a "Click" over the years. The cop that walked the beat, that you could look up to is long gone. They investigators are looking for the easiest answer.

 

[taildragger]

AMEN: Finally some sense is being spoken. Wendy, I spent 4 years plus in school and love my job and don't have to harrass the public to get my kicks. I also spent 4 years in the Marines and yet some by NetDoc"female cop" who carries a gun thinks she has all the answers and is just one step better than the rest. I need more pay also and so does 100 million people working for a living. by NetDoc

 

[RonDawg]

Police do not prevent crimes. They react to them, they investigate them, Sometimes they even solve them. But they don't prevent them.
Adding more police to the force will do nothing to stop crime. You want to stop crime you have to stop the revolving doors on the jails. Police serve a purpose and are needed but they have turned into a "Click" over the years. The cop that walked the beat, that you could look up to is long gone. They investigators are looking for the easiest answer.

I mostly agree with your post.

However, I disagree that investigators are looking for the "easiest answer." I can name many defense attorneys that will embarass you on the stand for doing that. You might recognize some of them: Johnnie Cochran, Mark Geragos.

The "cop on the beat" had disappeared for a long time, but it's slowly making its way back. During the heyday of the beat cop, populations weren't what they are now. People want coverage of their areas, but don't want to pay for it, so the most effective way to do that is with a lone cop in a car. Police administrators are finally realizing that while effective at covering larger areas with smaller forces, it isn't doing much for public relations.

If by "click" you mean "clique", when you're constantly berated by a public that expects you to know everything and do everything perfectly with a minimum of information, tools, training, and pay, you'd only hang out with other cops too. This is nothing new...ever read a Joseph Wambaugh novel?

 

[CBulla]

I don't want to sound like a psychologist or anything but there are some folks I think need different professions... some of yawl are to high strung! I mean, jeeze.. take a 24hr break and then come back and read the posts again. I have seen anyone anti-cop or truely attacking. I've seen some posts expressing disappointment in the experiences they have had with those in the profession, etc., but nothing that warrants the knee jerk reaction I am seeing posted here.

 

[Nomaster]

. . .The "cop on the beat" had disappeared for a long time, but it's slowly making its way back. During the heyday of the beat cop, populations weren't what they are now. People want coverage of their areas, but don't want to pay for it, so the most effective way to do that is with a lone cop in a car. Police administrators are finally realizing that while effective at covering larger areas with smaller forces, it isn't doing much for public relations.

If by "click" you mean "clique", when you're constantly berated by a public that expects you to know everything and do everything perfectly with a minimum of information, tools, training, and pay, you'd only hang out with other cops too. This is nothing new...ever read a Joseph Wambaugh novel?

We're fraught with false economies in the US, "maybe" everywhere. Some people wish to save money by not spending any, others by buying cheap products or services. I believe one of the worst things that happened to law enforcement is the removal of the beat cop.
Next worst thing, from my perspective, for police is/was the single patrolman to a patrol car... that is criminal of us the tax payer to allow.
When people, civilians or policeman(woman), or military, it doesn't matter who, are in a very vulnerable situation, they react differently from the way they do when they feel better protected.
One reason, maybe, for over-reaction by some officers. Some civilians. Some military guys in lands far away with too little equipment, too poorly maintained and armored equipment, too few numbers in force. In each case the outcome isn't as pretty as we would like.

You've got to be joking. Please explain what this meant if it wasn't anti law enforcement, and not personal:

.........but that is not entirely the reason why I have one general opinion of law enforcement officers, which does not apply to those I've met and who show me they're not within that group, such as Baitedstorm's husband. Police officers are above the law and they're the first ones who break the laws they're paid to enforce. So, until you personally convince me otherwise, Wendy, I'm sorry to say you're within that group.

Pretty much what Joe said. See the following.
I also allow for the overgenralization because of context, both the current discussion and the atmosphere of fear that is created by many factors, political, media, and real understaffing of our police departments.

Tom

I read that to mean that he will not trust a cop until the individual shows him their true colors. The same can be said for divers, doctors, tv repairmen and insurance agents.

I also read that to mean that he will at least give them the benefit, since he mentions at least one LEO that he thinks is a fine fellow. But that is my interpretation, I could be wrong.

Joe
QUOTE]

I think if we, in the comfortable glow of our computer screens, can draw back and see the bigger picture, we can understand the concerns by all who enter this fray, rather than feel personal attacks.
Even the name calling is reactionary, reaction to daily fears and concerns; we only make the waters muddier by finning through them incorrectly, so lets have no more of this silt-out!
I think we can get back on track, and get productive, and let the waters clear behind us. (This is a dive board after all, so swim gently and see more. Oh, and use the proper strokes to get the job done.)

Tom

 

[Nomaster]

If the diver doesn't have a flag, they put themselves at risk, not you. You have it backwards, IMHO. Trying to protect people from themselves is what promotes lawsuits when the injured party is the one at fault. People need to take responsibility for themselves. This is not accomplished when we legislate to protect them from their own foolishness.

I 100% agree with this post --EXCEPT that you didn't address the costs of cleanup. The taxpayer, you and me, pay after every accident.
But then we pay if the laws are enforced as well, seems that there needs to be a cost benefit analysis done here.

Tom

 

[OneBrightGator]

...

 

[RonDawg]

I don't want to sound like a psychologist or anything but there are some folks I think need different professions... some of yawl are to high strung! I mean, jeeze.. take a 24hr break and then come back and read the posts again. I have seen anyone anti-cop or truely attacking. I've seen some posts expressing disappointment in the experiences they have had with those in the profession, etc., but nothing that warrants the knee jerk reaction I am seeing posted here.

While I haven't waited 24 hours, I did wait at least 8 and as far as I'm concerned that's long enough for me. YMMV. Plus, this given the previous history of Scubaboard, this thread may simply disappear to never-never-land (rather than just be locked) so I'd like to get my thoughts in before this happens.

If the discussion was limited to just uneven enforcement of a particular situation, I wouldn't even be here; notice I didn't get involved in anything that the original thread talks about. But unfortunately, it degenerated into a cop-bashing fest.

And sorry, but in re-reading the posts I came up with even more law-enforcement bashing that I originally noticed. I don't know how you can say there's no cop-bashing in here when all you have to do is scroll up to find:

Call Jeb Bush and tell him to get his staff out of Dunkin Donuts and do their JOB.

and that's before the post that really got the ball rolling here:

...I have one general opinion of law enforcement officers, which does not apply to those I've met and who show me they're not within that group, such as Baitedstorm's husband. Police officers are above the law and they're the first ones who break the laws they're paid to enforce. So, until you personally convince me otherwise, Wendy, I'm sorry to say you're within that group.

and if that wasn't enough:

...how police officers drive like nascar wannabies in their own P.O.V.'s, yet I've not seen, or known of one who gets a ticket; how police officers park on the handicapped spaces, or in the "NO PARKING" zones, yet no one can say anything to them;

and just to stir the pot even more:

The list goes on, but it is a painful truth that the great majority of law enforcement officers practice profiling and selective law enforcement. To say otherwise is to try to sell me ocean front property in Arizona.

Other than the negative incident he speaks off with the off-duty Broward deputy, he's simply spreading more unfounded generalizations to get another poster extremely angry, in my opinion for the sole purpose of angering another poster. And considering her "goodbye" post I would say it worked real well. I'd call that TROLLING. Is that not in violation of the TOS?

Let me put it this way: remove "law enforcement" and insert a member of a minority here. Would the mods consider this acceptable behavior? Of course not!! And with a few political threads, we were warned that bashing of parties, and those who support them, would not be tolerated. So why is the bashing of law enforcers being tolerated?

I'm sorry this thread got derailed, but certain things were said that simply could not be ignored, especially if it's causing other members to leave. I just wish the mods would have stepped in before it got to that point.

And if the reference to "high strung" and "needing different professions" is a reference to me, I'll reply that prior to being offered this job, I underwent a thorough (to the point of being intrusive) background investigation that included an evaluation by a psychologist who specializes in dealing specifically with law enforcers, a qualification that you admittedly lack.

I'd love to stick around and post more, but my lunch break is nearly over and I wouldn't want to offend anybody here by making them think I am usurping taxpayer dollars by going a minute or two over my allotted break.

 

[The Chairman]

Politics... is not allowed because of the acrimony accompanied with it. This has nothing to do with incumbents.

People have rather low opinions of DIR divers/non-DIR divers and we don't call that trolling. We really don't try to control opinions here, but we do try to avoid flaming.

For the "disagreement" involved on this thread, it has been largely civil. If you want to see a flame fest I could point you to a certain area of the board, but even THEY have calmed it down a bit. There have been a few cases of the need to censor what has been said... and you can see that I did that, and I PMed the user as well. Personal attacks are NOT needed.

Rondawg... there are several mini-threads within this big thread... none of them have derailed the other. Law enforcement was at the heart of the first thread, so as long as we are remotely close to that we are "OK". Threads only disappear when they become flame wars, and so far this one does not qualify.

As for "the sole purpose" of any thread... I think that would be an over-simplification of the intent. It's far too easy to tell everyone what someone's motive is when we may not have a clue. I don't think he was trying to "anger" anyone. Vent? Most definitely. As for the "Goodbye thread", we hate to see anyone leave in a huff. But I am not going to kick people just because they have a negative opinion of law enforcement just to try and keep someone else on the board. Being in charge entails a TON of arm chair quarterbacking, secon guessing and oodles of criticism. I know, because I get that every day as well. I find it best to listen to each and every critic and learn from what they have to say. Sure, we ask some to leave, but that is rare (way less than 1/2 of 1 percent) and only for continued violations of the TOS.

 

[android]

Why do you guys want to scuba in Venice anyway? Don't the gondolas take you anywhere you want to go? Viva Italia!
Ciao,
Andy