Valve leaking around DIN to Yoke Insert plug

[Joris Vd]

so unless this is a very special insert you can basically google any din to yoke insert and it should work. I'm not sure about the US, but in Europe these are the standard valves you get when buying a tank except if you specify otherwise. Sometimes the o-ring can unseat itself, just like with a normal yoke tank. The o-ring you need for the insert is the exact same o-ring you need to put on your yoke valve if you have an old valve.

AS112 O-ring (90 durometer afaik?)

inner diameter:12,37 (mm)

outer diameter:17,61 (mm)

thickness: 2,62 (mm)

I don't think the shop that sold the tank to you was trying to con you or anything. It's just more versatile since you can use both regulators without problems normally. Just screw it out once a month or so and you should be fine.

 

[scubadada]

Convertible valves are the norm. Not sure why they care if you can get the insert out for visual inspection and/or hydro.

 

[W W Meixner]

I had a new K-valve installed a few years ago. During my latest visual inspection, the shop technician mentioned that the K-valve was of a type that I was unfamiliar with. The K-Valve is actually DIN (not yoke although it was sold as a yoke) but with a little screw-in insert. The insert turns the DIN valve into a yoke valve.

Okay, so I'm kind of pissed that I was sold a DIN valve without being told that it was a DIN valve, but hey, I went a couple years using it just fine with its yoke converter thingie.

So back to the most recent visual inspection. Not only does the shop technician tell me that my yoke valve is actually a DIN valve, but I've been needing to "regularly unscrew and rinse" the inserter adapter after every few dives. The tech said that my insert was heavily corroded and it took a lot of work to remove to complete the inspection.

So, I'm getting more pissed. I have a tank valve that is of a type I didn't ask for, and now I'm told that the thing requires regular extra maintenance (that also was not mentioned when the valve was purchased). I ask the technician if I can get a normal K-valve, but am told that this DIN with the insert is "just as good" but needs special maintenance. So that statement is contradictory. I ask the technician how I'm supposed to maintain this yoke inserter ring. The tech says that I need a special tool. I ask for the tool. The tech says that they don't carry it in the store. I ask what it is so I can buy it online. The tech says that she doesn't know how to identify the tool. I have to come to scubaboard and search to figure out that it's a weird Allen wrench.

So, the technician says that she had a hell of a time getting the yoke insert thing unscrewed (because of all the corrosion that I was supposed to be taking care of the last few years). But eventually after much cussing and swearing in the back of the shop she tells me that she managed to get the insert out. Okay.

Fast forward. The tank has been in storage for a few months. It has a full fill of nitrox. I'm checking it this week and lo and behold, I can't get my pressure checker to seat on the valve. I reposition several times. The valve is leaking around this yoke insert thing. I unscrew it (with the special Allen wrench I had to buy), inspect, screw back in, and try to seat the pressure checker again. Still leaking at the valve. I pull out my 1st stage regulator and try to get a seat seal with that. Same problem. There is a pretty good leak coming out of the valve.

So I'm incredibly pissed now. I don't know if the tech stripped or damaged my valve when she was forcibly manhandling it for the last visual inspection. There's little information about these DIN to Yoke insert things so I can't tell if it needs O-rings or not (there isn't one in mine should there be one?). The valves *appears* normal, but the thing is leaking like a sieve. The insert is not screwed in super tight, just hand tight. I don't know what's wrong with this thing.

Any feedback or ideas would be greatly appreciated.

AM...

DIN/Yoke ''convertible'' valves...referred to as ''Pro'' valves are actually more common these days than yoke ''only'' valves...

All you need to remove the insert is a standard ''Allen Key''...the two most common sizes are 5/6'' and 1/4''...

The insert has two ''O'' rings...one ''O'' ring on the inside...which seats the insert to the valve body...and an outside ''O'' ring which seats the yoke on your first stage regulator...to the insert...two sealing surfaces...

The inner ''O'' ring seal is an ''O'' ring seal...it does not have to be tight...tight...only snug...

Ensure your post dive cleaning is thorough...ensure your ''O'' rings are maintained in a ''sealable'' condition...a little ''Crysto-lube'' on the insert threads may be beneficial...and ensure the insert is not being threaded in...front to back...as the seating surfaces are not the same...

Valve service is part of annual tank servicing protocol...obviously your valve has not been receiving the attention it needs...

It also sounds as though you shop tec...is not as ''tec'' as he/she needs to be...

Make youself up a small ''dive'' dedicated tool kit...small water-tight tackle boxes work well...buy a ''Save-A-Dive'' ''O'' Ring kit...and a few basic tools to keep you from getting jammed-up and frustrated...

All part of the basics to get you started down the long road to becoming ''self-reliant''...

Best...

Warren

 

[Compressor]

Can you send a picture of the valve? I want to see all the corrosion.
It's DIN/K valve. Very common.

 

[JackD342]

Convertible valves are the norm. Not sure why they care if you can get the insert out for visual inspection and/or hydro.

I can’t speak for other brands, but Sherwood and Thermo both specify 5 year valve overhauls, so hydro is the obvious time to do it. I suspect other brands are the same.

 

[boulderjohn]

All you need to remove the insert is a standard ''Allen Key''...the two most common sizes are 5/6'' and 1/4''...

Unless it's metric.

I ran into one on a boat a few weeks ago. The tank was owned by the shop and was on the boat, being rented by someone who needed a DIN valve. When they tried to open it, none of their hex keys fit it because it was metric. As it turns out, my DIN regulators are metric and require a 7mm hex key, and I had one in my save a dive kit. Luckily I had a big one with a long handle, because that insert was definitely frozen solid. It took all the strength several of us had and every bit of the mechanical advantage of the long handle to get that to open.

All the "extra maintenance" you need is to do is loosen it a couple of turns every now and then and then tighten it up again.

The inner O-ring is a standard DIN O-ring. The outer one is a standard yoke O-ring. If the only thing you do is loosen the insert every now and then, you should never need to replace the DIN O-ring again.

What a lot of people who are familiar with these don't realize is that in many places, DIN valves are never used by local divers. I was an instructor with hundreds of dives before I saw my first DIN valve, and that was only because I started tech training. I will bet there are scuba techs working in shops all across the heartland of America who have never seen a DIN valve or a yoke insert for it.

 

[BoltSnap]

The type of valves you are describing, DIN/Yoke (with insert), are becoming the standard in the international market. Most, if not all, tanks sold today have this type of valves.

The "special" tool is a mere standard hex wrench. There isn't much to the preventative maintenance required, proper rinsing after use and unscrewing the insert with the very standard hex wrench to clean the threads. Nothing much more to it. No greasing of the o'rings needed and shouldn't be greased otherwise the grease will attract all kinds of dust, sand, dirt, etc. and make things worse. You will need to replace the o'rings on the insert on yearly basis with the visual inspection depending on your use of the tank.

There are far worse things in life, chill out and enjoy diving!!!

 

[W W Meixner]

Unless it's metric.

I ran into one on a boat a few weeks ago. The tank was owned by the shop and was on the boat, being rented by someone who needed a DIN valve. When they tried to open it, none of their hex keys fit it because it was metric. As it turns out, my DIN regulators are metric and require a 7mm hex key, and I had one in my save a dive kit. Luckily I had a big one with a long handle, because that insert was definitely frozen solid. It took all the strength several of us had and every bit of the mechanical advantage of the long handle to get that to open.

All the "extra maintenance" you need is to do is loosen it a couple of turns every now and then and then tighten it up again.

The inner O-ring is a standard DIN O-ring. The outer one is a standard yoke O-ring. If the only thing you do is loosen the insert every now and then, you should never need to replace the DIN O-ring again.

What a lot of people who are familiar with these don't realize is that in many places, DIN valves are never used by local divers. I was an instructor with hundreds of dives before I saw my first DIN valve, and that was only because I started tech training. I will bet there are scuba techs working in shops all across the heartland of America who have never seen a DIN valve or a yoke insert for it.

BJ...

Good point...I keep a set of both Metric and SAE Allen wrenchs in my tool box...there's a lot of Metric bits and pieces coming through now...just when you think your tool box has everything...the next time you make a purchase you find you have a new male/female nut/bolt/screw...you don't have a tool for...

Then comes buying products that have their own proprietary fittings...that nothing Standard or Metric will fit...

Best...

Warren

 

[markmud]

When they tried to open it, none of their hex keys fit it because it was metric.

Hi Boulderjohn,

One of mine uses an 8mm allen wrench and all others use a 5mm wrench. Non of them are SAE. They are all Thermo valves.

All of my convertible valves use the size 112 o-ring on both ends.

One poster recommended no silicone grease or Christo lube on the threads. On the threads I have been using petroleum free silicone grease for 40% or less O2 tanks (non O2 clean) and Christo lube on the O2 clean tanks. What do you recommend?

thanks,
markm

 

[scubadada]

I have an imperial and metric multitool in my kit, between the two, I have most everything.