Valve Drill Logistics

[TSandM]

I've spent a little time talking with two instructors about valve drills, and reading what others have said about the changes in the GUE valve drill that came in a couple of years ago.

The bottom line is that the valve drill is a drill. It's designed to ensure that you can reach and manipulate your valves in an efficient way and within a reasonable amount of time, and without disturbing your positioning, buoyancy, or situational awareness. Valve FAILURES are something else. If you have a failure, you need to take the most effective action you can. If you can clearly hear the bubbles are coming from your left, are you going to shut your right post first, because that's what the valve drill does? Of course not.

It seems like the basic dichotomy in training is between agencies which teach closing the isolator first (which my TDI instructor did) and being taught to attempt to locate and directly address the failure before isolating, as GUE teaches. But I don't think even the "isolator first" agencies teach you to do your shutdown drills by shutting the isolator first. It's like my husband likes to say . . . "Muscle memory" is great, but if you can't think and adapt to the actual circumstances in which you find yourself, you have a problem.

 

[amascuba]

I've spent a little time talking with two instructors about valve drills, and reading what others have said about the changes in the GUE valve drill that came in a couple of years ago.

The bottom line is that the valve drill is a drill. It's designed to ensure that you can reach and manipulate your valves in an efficient way and within a reasonable amount of time, and without disturbing your positioning, buoyancy, or situational awareness. Valve FAILURES are something else. If you have a failure, you need to take the most effective action you can. If you can clearly hear the bubbles are coming from your left, are you going to shut your right post first, because that's what the valve drill does? Of course not.

It seems like the basic dichotomy in training is between agencies which teach closing the isolator first (which my TDI instructor did) and being taught to attempt to locate and directly address the failure before isolating, as GUE teaches. But I don't think even the "isolator first" agencies teach you to do your shutdown drills by shutting the isolator first. It's like my husband likes to say . . . "Muscle memory" is great, but if you can't think and adapt to the actual circumstances in which you find yourself, you have a problem.

That pretty much hits the nail on the head.

I once had a protruded o-ring in my right post regulator during a dive. I simply turned off the right post while my buddy watched ready to donate if needed. I don't think that anybody is going to reach for their right post knob when they can clearly hear bubbles coming from the left post. My general consensus on the valve drill is to gain familiarity with the equipment to be able to handle a loss of gas emergency as it emerges.

 

[Dirkadiver]

I've spent a little time talking with two instructors about valve drills, and reading what others have said about the changes in the GUE valve drill that came in a couple of years ago.

The bottom line is that the valve drill is a drill. It's designed to ensure that you can reach and manipulate your valves in an efficient way and within a reasonable amount of time, and without disturbing your positioning, buoyancy, or situational awareness. Valve FAILURES are something else. If you have a failure, you need to take the most effective action you can. If you can clearly hear the bubbles are coming from your left, are you going to shut your right post first, because that's what the valve drill does? Of course not.

It seems like the basic dichotomy in training is between agencies which teach closing the isolator first (which my TDI instructor did) and being taught to attempt to locate and directly address the failure before isolating, as GUE teaches. But I don't think even the "isolator first" agencies teach you to do your shutdown drills by shutting the isolator first. It's like my husband likes to say . . . "Muscle memory" is great, but if you can't think and adapt to the actual circumstances in which you find yourself, you have a problem.

Makes sense generally speaking, but the OP stated not being able to identify the failure point. In that case I know I'd be shutting down my isolator first

 

[do it easy]

I've spent a little time talking with two instructors about valve drills, and reading what others have said about the changes in the GUE valve drill that came in a couple of years ago.

The bottom line is that the valve drill is a drill. It's designed to ensure that you can reach and manipulate your valves in an efficient way and within a reasonable amount of time, and without disturbing your positioning, buoyancy, or situational awareness. Valve FAILURES are something else. If you have a failure, you need to take the most effective action you can. If you can clearly hear the bubbles are coming from your left, are you going to shut your right post first, because that's what the valve drill does? Of course not.

It seems like the basic dichotomy in training is between agencies which teach closing the isolator first (which my TDI instructor did) and being taught to attempt to locate and directly address the failure before isolating, as GUE teaches. But I don't think even the "isolator first" agencies teach you to do your shutdown drills by shutting the isolator first. It's like my husband likes to say . . . "Muscle memory" is great, but if you can't think and adapt to the actual circumstances in which you find yourself, you have a problem.

I completely agree- if the failure is easily identifiable, then correct it directly. But in the event that it is not obvious, I don't think the "standard" valve drill is efficient for preserving gas while identifying the problem. Yes, we should plan for catastrophic gas failures, but being able to exit a cave idependantly will be more efficient that sharing air.

As far as muscle memory goes, I don't do valve drills often, but while I dive, I wll reach back and put my hands on my valves and close them one turn and then re-opening them. It's more like a valve stretch.

 

[do it easy]

Perhaps another way to ask this is - What do you do in the "standard" valve drill if the bubbles don't stop?

 

[texdiveguy]

As far as muscle memory goes, I don't do valve drills often, but while I dive, I will reach back and put my hands on my valves and close them one turn and then re-opening them. It's more like a valve stretch.

This is my practice also....but when I do a 'formal' valve drill (practice-demonstration)...the isolator is still the first valve shut down and last to be re-opened.

To many folks harp on how fast and pretty it needs to happen...thats fine if it makes one happy, but the fact still remains you will react as best as you can in the event of a valve /burst disk/hose/o-ring failure issue, pretty or not.

 

[Divin'Papaw]

As far as muscle memory goes, I don't do valve drills often, but while I dive, I wll reach back and put my hands on my valves and close them one turn and then re-opening them. It's more like a valve stretch.

Sounds more like valve foreplay to me.

 

[amascuba]

Perhaps another way to ask this is - What do you do in the "standard" valve drill if the bubbles don't stop?

Isolate the problem as much as possible. If you can identify which side the bubbles are coming from and turn off that post, if the bubbles don't stop, then go for the isolator, and have your buddy check it out. If it's determined by your buddy to be non-fixable then thumb the dive. .... That would probably be my general run down as I think most likely it would be a problem with a regulator more so than a tank o-ring.

 

[TSandM]

GUE teaches you to try to localize the source of gas loss -- You can turn your head back and forth, or even reach back and try to feel the bubbles. If you can localize, shut that post. If you can't localize, you start with right post, because it's the most likely source of the problem. If bubbles don't stop, you isolate. Of course, the whole time, you've been signalling your team that you have a problem, and honestly, if I get through shutting my right post AND my isolator before I have a teammate looking at the problem and able to communicate with me, my teammate is going to be missing some hide after the dive. If the teammate sees I'm barking up the wrong valve, he can signal me to "hold" and he can come in and fix my error.

 

[limeyx]

Perhaps another way to ask this is - What do you do in the "standard" valve drill if the bubbles don't stop?

Valve drill has zero to do with bubbles.
its just to practice muscle memory (with no bubbles)