Using European 3/4.14" valves in the US?

[steveharriss]

Can we have the cylinder markings please? It may be a 1978 Faber but European cylinders have never had NPSM threaded necks so, unless you have a US spec cylinder, someone has incorrectly forced the valve into the cylinder or the dealer is wrong. It wouldn't be the first time. The cylinder markings will tell us which scenario is correct.

I'll give you a clue though. Why CE mark a valve that cannot be used in European specification cylinders? That's right, you wouldn't.

I PM'd you to make you aware of how dangerous this mismatching is, not to take the matter 'off board'.

Most new cylinders come DIN convertible anyway so why it's important to take this valve with you I have no idea.

 

[Scared Silly]

I am look into the burst disc question next. Is it mandatory to have burst discs in the U.S.?

Burst disks are required in the USA. It is odd though - several times I have brought cylinders in for requal (i.e. hydro) sans valves and the inspector wanted to see the valves to make sure they had burst disks. I was surprised by that as I figured it would be filler that would be checking.

 

[broadreach]

Can we have the cylinder markings please

Certainly. The markings are:
Faber 78/497/27 ARIA 200 / 300 KG/cm² 15.3 Litri 16.0 Kg [here comes the symbol of the Italian authority RI inside a star] 10 - 78 [letter I inside a circle]

European cylinders have never had NPSM threaded necks

are you sure?

I'll give you a clue though. Why CE mark a valve that cannot be used in European specification cylinders? That's right, you wouldn't.

The (very professional shop) that has sold me the valve, has sent me a scanned copy of the order form from their supplier clearly identifying the valve as NPSM.

Have you considered the possibility that they use different standards in Italy then you do in the U.K.?
Have a quick look at this Italian company's website selling 3/4" NPSM valves stamped CE

Most new cylinders come DIN convertible anyway so why it's important to take this valve with you I have no idea.

I want to be able to make that decision based on fact, not assumptions.

Thank you for your help

 

[Agility]

Most new cylinders come DIN convertible anyway so why it's important to take this valve with you I have no idea.

As you can see on the photo it is a double outlet valve.
It is not unusual to dive two first stages on single tanks in European lakes (tough I prefer my medium sized doubles even for recreational dives)

 

[steveharriss]

Do you know what, I'm bored. Get on with it

 

[broadreach]

I just received confirmation from the vendor of the valve that indeed does have a burst disc.

So to sum things up the valve in question is 3/4.14" NPSM with a burst disc. Is there any other reason whatsoever why this valve cannot be used in the United States?

Thanks!

 

[herman]

The dealer has confirmed that the valve is NPSM thread. You have to remember that it is sitting in a Faber steel tank from 1978 and was specially ordered to fit this tank.

I am look into the burst disc question next. Is it mandatory to have burst discs in the U.S.?

I would not be too sure, if the dealer just held them side by side to compair they would never tell the difference. In the late 70s Faber made some steel tanks with Whitworth/BPS threads. Unless you know exactly what you are looking for and have the correct measuring devices, it's very difficult to tell the difference. A US NPS valve will fit into the BPS threads but it will be loose, on the other hand, the BPS will not go into a NPS tank more than a turn or 2. I have a good bit of experience with this exact problem. A while back for a friend a friend ask me to machine some replacement parts for an old Technisub Raid (2 steel faber 80's in a housing) and I ran into this exact problem. The tanks were late 70s Fabers that had 3/4 BPS (aka Whitworth) threads. It took me months to run down the tools and cutters to cut the threads.....after I did a lot of research to figure out why the original RAID part would not fit my tanks.

 

[broadreach]

if the dealer just held them side by side to compair they would never tell the difference

This is not the case here. The valve was ordered specifically as an NPSM valve. I have seen the order form from the supplier, clearly indicating this.

I have contacted FABER to ask about the tank itself. I am still waiting for their reply. I would highly doubt that the current tank is not a match. The valve was specially ordered for THIS tank by a highly professional and experienced shop. It has been filled to 200 BAR many times and dived with already. Had the valve been too small it would have ended catastrophically by now.

It seems that some people refuse to accept the possibility that in Italy one can find older tanks with 3/4.14" NPSM neck threads.
Take a look at this page where Faber is listing standards around the world. Notice that for Italy they use ITALIAN STANDARD as opposed to CEE/EEC/EWG 84/525 (EUROPE) used in most other European countries and the BS 5045 P.1 (BRITISH STANDARD)used in the U.K.
But does anyone here have actual first hand knowledge of Italian standards? and particularly what those standards were in 1978?

Steveharris above asked for the tank markings and suggested that based on those he could find out what the neck size was, but I guess he is too "bored" to bother

The question however, is not about the Italian FABER tank, which lacking a DOT stamp will regretfully remain in Europe. The question was only about the valve itself and its usability in the U.S.

Thanks for your input.

 

[Quero]

Well, even if some of the responses in the forum thread became a bit acerbic, at least you gained some insight about what exact details to investigate and what questions to ask about the tank, the valve, etc. The valve looks small enough that packing it to move to California with you shouldn't be an issue, even if you find out later it won't work on the tanks that are available to you there. You can always take it back to Switzerland on a visit and put it back on your old tank. (I've done seven huge international moves, and I just can't see getting all wound up about whether to pack the thing and take it along or leave it behind, as small as it is in relation to everything else you are likely to be shipping over.)

 

[knotical]

I just received confirmation from the vendor of the valve that indeed does have a burst disc.

You should be able to also physically verify this by simply looking at your valve. If the burst disk plug isn't obviously visible, It calls into question (at least in my mind) any other information you received from the vendor. It usually looks like the head of a nut with holes in some of the wrench flats.