Using AIR 2

[lexvil]

Which is why I was looking to quantify the actual risk.

There is no way to quantify the risk.

 

[L13]

There is no way to quantify the risk.

Maybe "quantify" is a bad choice of words. I'm looking to guesstimate the relative approximate magnitude of the risk as compared to other risk choices I make.

If actual incidents where the Air2 make things significantly worse are rare compared to incidents in general, that shifts the decision one way. If they are relatively common, then it shifts the decision the other way.

 

[tursiops]

There is no issue with sticking an Air2 in your mouth and breathing from it.

The problems begin to arise when you have donated your primary to an OOG diver, and then begin to ascend.
You WILL need to release gas from you BCD to avoid an uncontrolled buoyant ascent. You only have 4 ways to do that:

1. Take the Air2 from your mouth, exhale bubbles (you ARE ascending), press the gas release that is on your Air2
2. Pull on the Air2 so the wire inside releases the left shoulder dump...this may also require you to take the Air2 from your mouth if there isn't a little "bump" on the corrugated hose made for this p[urpose to give you a pull point
3. Use the right shoulder dump (if you have one), with your left hand because your right hand is busy with the shoulder strap of the OOG diver
4. Go horizontal, hip up, an use the butt dump....but this is difficult with the pesky other diver there.

Of these alternatives, only #1 and 2 can be counted on as viable. Both require practice and calm....you really do NOT want to hold your breath while moving -- perhaps rapidly -- to the surface with an OOG diver.

Alternatively, you grab your secondary second-stage (from aroun you neck?) and breath from it after donating your primary to the OOG diver. Now, when you need to release gas from you BCD, you can just use the inflator system as you normally do, while continuing to breath. No big deal. Easier. Safer. Especially when one of the divers is probably near panic...

Or, maybe you've never had to donate gas? Good luck...may your charmed life continue...

 

[Boarderguy]

Or, maybe you've never had to donate gas? Good luck...may your charmed life continue...

I have recently and it works well, but I also have a pony on EVERY dive. OOG spurs the primary to be donated and I go to my Air2 while figuring out wtf the problem is. I ensure my pony is now fully on (I keep it charged and slightly on, GFY if you don't like it). I stay on my Air2 until I've decided that my backgas is low enough that it is for the OOG buddy and I now go to my pony. I did all this while continuing the dive and ascending to 30fsw due to potential overhead boat traffic (we were in a channel) and piloting a scooter. It isn't rocket science. Don't be an idiot and you likely won't die.

 

[Angelo Farina]

I did always think that an Air2 is an excellent way to have a THIRD air source, after my two fully independrnt regs on two independent valves.
When working as a divemaster my employer asked us to always be equipped with two fully independent regs, plus an octopus with a long yellow hose mounted "the wrong way" on the left shoulder.
After the end of my professional career I removed the octo. But using an Air2 would make again available a third air source, which revealed to be very useful in some cases...
I would never dive with just a primary and Air2 and just one first stage. Not enough redundancy for me.

 

[lexvil]

Which is why I was looking to quantify the actual risk.

There is no way to quantify the risk.

Maybe "quantify" is a bad choice of words. I'm looking to guesstimate the relative approximate magnitude of the risk as compared to other risk choices I make.

If actual incidents where the Air2 make things significantly worse are rare compared to incidents in general, that shifts the decision one way. If they are relatively common, then it shifts the decision the other way.

I’ve never seen anyone with an air2 octo inflator suffer from it but I’m only a few years into it (1971) I have seen regular seconds give many issues from wild freeflow (adjustments) to failed seat freeflow (by the way trying to stop or significantly reduce flow with modern hoses is unlikely or impossible) if I were to base the decision on my actual observed failures, as opposed to perceived problems, I can only conclude that regular inline or center balanced seconds are not to be used and only octo inflators are reliable. In reality in the event of a run away freeflow you can disconnect it easily.

they are not dangerous or any more dangerous than any other regulator, the best bet is to buy one and try it, if you buy a good one like a Zeagle or Atomic and don’t like it I’ll give you $100 for it

 

[L13]

There is no issue with sticking an Air2 in your mouth and breathing from it.

The problems begin to arise when you have donated your primary to an OOG diver, and then begin to ascend.
You WILL need to release gas from you BCD to avoid an uncontrolled buoyant ascent. You only have 4 ways to do that:

1. Take the Air2 from your mouth, exhale bubbles (you ARE ascending), press the gas release that is on your Air2
2. Pull on the Air2 so the wire inside releases the left shoulder dump...this may also require you to take the Air2 from your mouth if there isn't a little "bump" on the corrugated hose made for this p[urpose to give you a pull point
3. Use the right shoulder dump (if you have one), with your left hand because your right hand is busy with the shoulder strap of the OOG diver
4. Go horizontal, hip up, an use the butt dump....but this is difficult with the pesky other diver there.

Of these alternatives, only #1 and 2 can be counted on as viable. Both require practice and calm....you really do NOT want to hold your breath while moving -- perhaps rapidly -- to the surface with an OOG diver.

You seem to be assuming that you are vertical when ascending with the OOG diver. In this case, doesn't the dump button on the Air2 work exactly as normal even if it is in your mouth? The dump point would be approximately at the high point in the BCD bubble.

Or, maybe you've never had to donate gas? Good luck...may your charmed life continue...

I've had to donate gas for real 3 times already in my diving (not counting training). For all three I was wearing a dry suit and managing 2 bubbles. For one (the easiest) my buddy also had a dry suit, but we both remained calm and resolved the problem without having to immediately surface. In the other two, my buddy was panicked and I had to manage the ascent as best I could, but we were vertical during the ascent.

I all 3 cases, assuming long enough hoses and that the dump button still works when vertical, I don't think the Air2 would have made things worse. In all 3 cases, it ended up being a primary donate (2x panicked diver, 1x by plan).

But that is only a sample size of 3. Too small to be decisive.

 

[Edward3c]

Maybe "quantify" is a bad choice of words. I'm looking to guesstimate the relative approximate magnitude of the risk as compared to other risk choices I make.

If actual incidents where the Air2 make things significantly worse are rare compared to incidents in general, that shifts the decision one way. If they are relatively common, then it shifts the decision the other way.

BSAC researched it’s annual dive incident reports and concluded the combined / integrated BC/wing inflator and DV was responsible for a number of incidents where an OOA diver and their buddy had trouble initiating an assisted assent. As such the BC inflator/DV combination is not considered an appropriate alternate source for OOA/G situations.

 

[L13]

BSAC researched it’s annual dive incident reports and concluded the combined / integrated BC/wing inflator and DV was responsible for a number of incidents where an OOA diver and their buddy had trouble initiating an assisted assent. As such the BC inflator/DV combination is not considered an appropriate alternate source for OOA/G situations.

Would you happen to have a link to the report on this?

 

[Edward3c]

Would you happen to have a link to the report on this?

BSAC Incident Reports, but only from 2012. It was early 00s when the decision was made.