Use a backup SPG with air integration?

[stuartv]

One of the big reasons that I went with a hosed AI computer was that "transmitter failure", "receiver failure" and/or connectivity issues would never be issues that I would require a backup plan for.

You could still have a pressure transducer failure.

To me (just to ME, mind you), the hosed AI computer is sort of the worst of 2 worlds. You still have all the failure points of an SPG - a static O-ring in the HP port on the 1st stage, 2 dynamic O-rings on the spool (the part that goes inside the connection from the HP hose to the SPG or console), and the HP hose itself. You still have an electronic part that can fail (the pressure transducer). And you don't get any of the benefits of wireless.

My first transmitter (an Oceanic-branded PPS) is almost 3 years old and I have over 150 dives on it, not counting pool sessions. It has never had a single glitch and it is still on its original battery. I should change it, but I want to see how long it goes. Last I checked on my computer, it still showed the transmitter battery status as "Good".

If it dies during a dive - well, I am generally never gas-limited. If my transmitter does die during a dive, the most likely scenario, by far, is that I would finish my dive without any concern. I normally stay close to my buddy anyway (assuming I'm diving with a buddy), so I would just take a little extra care in staying close for "just in case". If I were diving solo, then I would have redundant gas (and still that confidence that I know my consumption rate and am generally never gas-limited), so still no reason to turn the dive early.

All that said, when it comes to hosed versus hoseless, several of the instructors at my shop use AI consoles (Oceanic Pro Plus or Atomic Cobalt). I can see the convenience that they have in being able to throw on their rig and jump in without the extra step of strapping on a computer. So, to each their own. There is definitely not one "right" answer. Well, except, "Shearwater". This is ScubaBoard, after all. LOL

 

[stuartv]

If Shearwater did a less expensive version of the Perdix AI, with reduced functionality, it would generate sales in a new category. But, it would take away some sales from the Perdix AI. And it would increase the cost of support, the cost of marketing, the cost of development (though, presumably this would be a very small increase), and increase the load on manufacturing. Maybe manufacturing has extra capacity that could be put to good use. Or maybe they would have to invest more money in their manufacturing to meet the additional demand. If it sold enough, they would probably also have to invest money in expanding their support infrastructure, too.

Maybe if it was a good source for increased profits they would have already done it. Or maybe it's on their product roadmap and the OC Rec mode and then the Perdix AI were just the first steps in that direction, but they haven't gotten to the end goal yet because, hey, it's a small company and they can only get so much done in a day.

In the end, this is all just stuff that some MBA types that know Shearwater's internal details would have to figure out.

What I wish for is for them to make a smaller, thinner version of the Perdix AI. Still with a nice, color display, and with AI, CCR, multi-gas, trimix, and Buhlmann/GF support, but with a small rechargeable battery. You know, like a Seabear H3, but with AI....

 

[tbone1004]

@stuartv edited due to clarification from Bruce. Apparently the info I had been provided was incorrect regarding CNC capacity

Either way, I hope they continue to focus on providing top notch customer service and the best equipment out there instead of trying to capture more of the market and put themselves at risk of dilution

 

[Shearwater]

@stuartv part of the drive for the Perdix was that their CNC machines ran out of capacity producing the Petrels so they needed a cheaper and faster way to manufacture the cases to keep up with sales, cue Perdix. The CNC machines stay busy enough with Petrel production for the CCR's. I'm sure there is capacity in the molding machines, but it's capacity in assembly/testing that would probably be it. Personally, I'm glad they came out with the Perdix, and I'm very glad they came out with the Perdix AI even if they said they wouldn't. I don't want them to get any bigger than they are now because that would dilute their focus which is still on CCR.
The Perdix just helps pay the bills ;-)

We appreciate your contribution on Shearwater threads, but actually, Shearwater has only one CNC mill and it is in engineering. Although all of our machining and molding is done in Vancouver, we don't do it in-house. In our factory you will see anti-static assembly stations and latex gloves. Take a look at this video for a view of our sub-assembly prep area.

TEKDiveUSA.2018

Bruce

 

[tbone1004]

We appreciate your contribution on Shearwater threads, but actually, Shearwater has only one CNC mill and it is in engineering. Although all of our machining and molding is done in Vancouver, we don't do it in-house. In our factory you will see anti-static assembly stations and latex gloves. Take a look at this video for a view of our sub-assembly prep area.

TEKDiveUSA.2018

Bruce

thanks, I got that info second hand from one of the CCR manufacturers, glad to get clarification.

can you offer any insight to the ETA on cloud desktop while we have you on the line?

 

[beaverdivers]

On an average group dive trip on a liv-aboard, we will do over 400 diver-hours in a week using Scubapro Galileo computers. It is unusual to have any gear problems, because of the pre trip preparation; bench checks, proper service and pool dives.

However, we all dive with redundant systems. I prefer multiple transmitters. Studying the failure rate of SPG's to transmitters on these trips, they are very low for both. Lately, transmitters have had an edge with a lower failure rate.

 

[Hoag]

You could still have a pressure transducer failure.

To me (just to ME, mind you), the hosed AI computer is sort of the worst of 2 worlds. You still have all the failure points of an SPG - a static O-ring in the HP port on the 1st stage, 2 dynamic O-rings on the spool (the part that goes inside the connection from the HP hose to the SPG or console), and the HP hose itself. You still have an electronic part that can fail (the pressure transducer). And you don't get any of the benefits of wireless.

My first transmitter (an Oceanic-branded PPS) is almost 3 years old and I have over 150 dives on it, not counting pool sessions. It has never had a single glitch and it is still on its original battery. I should change it, but I want to see how long it goes. Last I checked on my computer, it still showed the transmitter battery status as "Good".

If it dies during a dive - well, I am generally never gas-limited. If my transmitter does die during a dive, the most likely scenario, by far, is that I would finish my dive without any concern. I normally stay close to my buddy anyway (assuming I'm diving with a buddy), so I would just take a little extra care in staying close for "just in case". If I were diving solo, then I would have redundant gas (and still that confidence that I know my consumption rate and am generally never gas-limited), so still no reason to turn the dive early.

All that said, when it comes to hosed versus hoseless, several of the instructors at my shop use AI consoles (Oceanic Pro Plus or Atomic Cobalt). I can see the convenience that they have in being able to throw on their rig and jump in without the extra step of strapping on a computer. So, to each their own. There is definitely not one "right" answer. Well, except, "Shearwater". This is ScubaBoard, after all. LOL

FWIW, I briefly had a wireless DC. It was an early Oceanic model. I had it for one trip to Grand Cayman & it was nothing but trouble. Almost every time I went to check it, the screen read something to the effect of: Signal Lost searching ... Syncing stand by ... then after about 30 seconds to a minute, it would be able to get a readout.

That trip made me very distrustful of wireless AI computers.

 

[stuartv]

FWIW, I briefly had a wireless DC. It was an early Oceanic model. I had it for one trip to Grand Cayman & it was nothing but trouble. Almost every time I went to check it, the screen read something to the effect of: Signal Lost searching ... Syncing stand by ... then after about 30 seconds to a minute, it would be able to get a readout.

That trip made me very distrustful of wireless AI computers.

It would be interesting to know if the problems you had stemmed from the computer or the transmitter (or both). I guess we'll never know.

But, I don't think Shearwater would have adopted use of the PPS transmitters if they weren't extremely reliable.

 

[shurite7]

Years ago divers were not allowed to use SPGs because they were new and not considered reliable. This claim was used in the 90s when transmitters/transponders came out. In the past couple of years I've seen an SPG and a transmitter fail; not at the same time, however.

Alec Pierce, in his youtube videos, makes a good point - do what makes you feel comfortable.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

But your okay with the possibility of ending a dive early because the SPG that you don't actually need blows out?

For recreational dives, no. I would keep diving and monitor my gas more closely, and if that failed, I'd be going to the surface in a slow, controlled manner. I always dive with redundancy (doubles or sidemount), except when teaching OW classes.

For technical dives, any failure and dive is over.